to think that 6000 per month is excessive for the government to take off my pay for tax?

[tootaxed]

Surely there should be a maximum limit that each person has to pay as tax? Six grand per month in tax is just excessive imo. And that is before NI contributions etc. If the government set a maximum tax limit they would take more care over how they spent their central funds. And I wouldn't have to work so many hours away from my DCs only to have 72 bloody grand a year taken off my income to fund their mis-spending.

We have a regressive tax system - the burden of taxation falls far more heavily on the low paid than the high paid. Because so few taxes (income tax) are effectively "means tested" and so many (VAT, council tax) are not. Add to that the punitive rate of benefit withdrawal once your income starts to climb and you're looking at a seriously regressive system.

The proportion of your income that you pay in tax is far higher if you earn #10k than if you earn #100k. So for heaven's sake stop bleating.

As for people who imagine it's so much better elsewhere....ummmm no. Taxes are not lower in Switzerland (used to live there). And though the US has a reputation for lower taxation, they don't let the non-doms get away with it so Christ knows why we do.

Xenia, even you would struggle to get residency in Monaco. They are not interested in income. Only capital. You have to prove that you have enough capital to live without ever working again should you need to. A fancy income is of no interest to them. Plus it's a crap place to live. As is Switzerland.

I always wondered why we even bother to cite salary figures as gross. It only makes you feel sick when you see them as net. When I was teaching, however, I had the satisfaction of seeing more coming into my pay packet from the state than going out.

I also remember explaining to a group of sixth formers how 18,000 p.a. (a McDonald's Managers wage at the time - the most popular career choice) actually doesn't mean £1500 a month after tax, rent/mortgage, bills etc. I think we need more tax education in schools personally so it's not such a shock.

The knowing the "price of everything value of nothing" quote is I'm pretty sure Oscar Wilde. A great quote!

It Bulgaria and 10% tax that was appealing - never liked the sound of Monaco. It's Switzerland that's becoming quite popular for those fed up with UK taxation of people I know anyway but it's a fairly dull place.

No, I don't regret not being a housewife. I have had 5 children over 23 years. I have spend a tremendous amount of time with them, probably more over those years plus the next 10 before the youngest leave than the average mother at home until the youngest is 5 who only has one or two children actually if you add up the hours.

I agree about tax education. I worked out with my oldest who has found her first job what the after tax pay although she's pretty clued up anyway (and it's all a huge fortune to her having been a student and worked for £75 a week in some holidays).

My link above to international tax rates shows a good few places where tax rates are very low if you choose to live there. SO it's ont true to say it's always worse or as bad elsewhere. It can be better and as long as we don't have international tax rates people will move in part to the regime which suits them for tax purposes. And plenty of the people I work with operate through companies in liberal tax regimes. Even Ebay is moving its headquarters from UK to Luxembourg.

Why we don't get as many women as men earning over £100. May be women aren't as clever or as hard working or they marry men who will keep them and they stay at home to bake cakes. But I would certainly prefer if more women did earn more. It would be better.

Buda, you aren't quite getting it. Read the quote and see the response. A blinkered view of the world. My whole argument is that often we don't 'choose' any of these things. Life leads you in certain directions. You are happy, I am happy, but you have picked up exactly on my point - I didn't choose my job because of the money. indeed, some use the argument that the increase the wage of my profession would draw in the wrong kind of people...

"Why we don't get as many women as men earning over £100. May be women aren't as clever or as hard working or they marry men who will keep them and they stay at home to bake cakes. But I would certainly prefer if more women did earn more. It would be better."

Or maybe women have other priorities or are forced to choose between the 100K salary or her family?

"Or maybe women have other priorities or are forced to choose between the 100K salary or her family?"

Or maybe some women eschew financial responsibility? I don't blame them in the slightest, I'd quite like to eschew it myself but I am sure some of that goes on ...

well im bored with this thread now, but xenia you sound very hollow. i feel sorry for you tbh.

anyway off to find a cheerier thread.

I work full time, but I am paid peanuts.

However I love my job and its fun going to work. I do IT support in a special school. Its is also a truely special place to work.

Unlike previous jobs I get a real buzz from what I do. I also enjoy 11 weeks of holiday and being able to pick my son up at 4.30pm. my employer is also reasonably flexible about time off for medical appointments and child sick leave. My job has low costs and I pay tiny amounts of income tax and national insurance.

Surely it is true mark of intelligence choosing a job that fits in with your life's circumstances rather than picking the job that earns the most.

Life is short and we never know when it will end. When we die we cannot take the money we earn with us. There aren't many people on their death beds who think "I should really have worked more hours in the office and spent less time with the kids!"

A smart man or woman realises there is more to life than money. They look at the whole lifestyle a job offers.

No one has said everyone should or even could earn enough to pay £72k tax a year so no need for others to get defensive about it. In fact the cleverest nicest thing is to earn a lot and have good relationships with family and hobbies too which many people who earn a lot do manage. A lot of money gives you chances and choices and in some senses more leisure because you can buy domestic services, concentrate on your children, manage your own hours etc.

Do some women eschew financial responsibility? Well certainly some men prefer women not to be the major earner but then some men conversely get cross the whole having to support the family thing falls on them whilst their wife gets a choice about part time or full time work. Anyway at least we get these choices unlike in some countries.

Quattrocento - I'd be interested to know what financial responsilblities you think women eschew?

I somehow don't think you mean financial responsibilities like working to provide basic living expenses - I think you mean providing a good second income for extras like second homes or private schools. It's a little disingenuous to imply that women are slacking if they don't take on those kind of responsibilities.

And Xenia, I folllowed your argument up to where you said that no-one has said that everyone should or could earn enough to pay £72k tax a year. ??? I thought your whole premise was to exhort women to aspire to that?

"Quattrocento - I'd be interested to know what financial responsilblities you think women eschew?

I somehow don't think you mean financial responsibilities like working to provide basic living expenses"

Well I did mean basic living expenses of course. What is basic varies from person to person. I don't think many women do it but certainly some do, and quite often, I wish that I could too ...

I applaud the OP for taking her share (or in fact more than her share) of the burden - declaring the amount of tax was of course not appropriate - but it is good to see gals working hard and getting on.

Xenia,
I have the skills to earn a hell of a lot of money. People with strong IT support skills can earn very nice salaries, particuarly if they do contracting and work in London.

"Well certainly some men prefer women not to be the major earner but then some men conversely get cross the whole having to support the family thing falls on them whilst their wife gets a choice about part time or full time work."

What hours people work, whether one parents stays at home is something that people have to decide in a relationship. I think that both parents have caring responsiblities as well as financial responsiblities.

In a healthy relationship a husband and wife listen to each other. As far I am concerned its private arrangement between two grown adults how they divide their labour. If a SAHM is support by her husband its none of anyone else's business. The important thing is that both people are happy. A good marriage is a symbiotic relationship.

Like Xenia, would would rather pull out my own teeth than be a SAHM. My husband and I choose to do a bit of everything.

"concentrate on your children, manage your own hours etc. "

How can you do that if you work 100 hours a week? I work flexi time, I have a reasonable amount of automony in my little job. I work to live rather than live to work.

So many interesting jobs are low-paid though. I don't think you can choose profession only going on what you will earn.

really not interested in getting anyone's £72k tax bill down

oh and xenia, bulgaria (or wherever) - low tax..= piss poor services (otherwise why on earth would my cleaner & hoardes of her friends be working here, living without the love of their families??)

I love it when I see high-earning women, and although my personal view is that in their early years children need love and affection, and paying someone to provide that can be a hit and miss affair (I know this from experience), I would never judge anyone who chooses to go to work.

However I'm starting to feel offended by some of the mud-slinging on here - it seems that even those who claiming to be happy in their career choices are feeling a bit defensive...

I don't know what you mean Red.

Well, it's mainly the comments to the effect that women who don't earn a lot must be unintelligent (or perhaps lazy.) To be fair, there have been a lot of negative comments about high-earners too, so it's been working both ways.

I don't work 100 hour weeks and my work and home life are very integrated so it's hard to know exactly my working hours although I do do some work usually on 7 days a week.

Interesting that my sister who was here at the weekend was saying she wanted her children to choose higher paid work (not something I've ever suggested for my children actually although I'd prefer it if they could afford a reasonable lifestyle) and she said as teenager she did not know what money meant, what one job would earn you etc and yet as I reminded her we sat in my father's car as teenagers on the way to school talking about work and I am sure one of the issues we talked about a few times was pay.

Yes, I did say above I like women to aspire to higher paid jobs, particularly whilst they general don't have them. When men and women are about equal , 50/50 in the cabinet, around board rooms, leading companies etc then it's not quite so important but we still have a long way to go to prove women aren't uninterested in work, will go part time when they have a baby and are not worth investing in.

I think salary is no barometer of how wealthy you are - I live in SW London where a 2 bed semi is £550k - £575k and a 3 bed is 100k more. Am looking to move out of a flat and there is no way I can afford that here. And I earn a good salary. But there will be people who bought at the right time, in the right place who will be reaping the benefits of having done so, even though they may have less in terms of income.

i have just been reading all the recent comments on this post and cant believe that tt's original tack has been replaced by a "i earn more than you and am therefore of higher social status and better" tact.

who cares how intelligent/how much we earn/how much tax we all pay - shouldn't we care how happy our children are? sorry i thought i was on MUMSnet not WORKINGWOMENSnet. don't usually get this worked up but who cares what social class you all are. also xenia - as a professional myself i would advise my DC to get a trade and be self-employed rather than "choose a higher paid work". happiness is more satisfying than money.

right have said my piece and am now off my soapbox.

I don't earn very much at all; but love my current job. Yes,I look at my pay packet and gasp "How much?" at the tax each month; but the amount I actually bring home pays for us to have days out as a happy family.
I think, Xenia, that 'studies' show that children who have had either parent at home for their first few years are the most likely to remain emotionally stable into adulthood.
Going back several pages, there are still areas of this country where a job in a call-centre is a real bonus to a family's income and those who get these jobs are envied - it is a more responsible work ethic than sitting on the dole. My niece was so excited to get a call-centre interview - don't diss it.
Was it xenia again who said that you pay what something's worth? So each solicitor's letter needed to support my DS's learning needs is worth £30? I wish writing school reports earned me £30 each!! No wonder the op struggles with her tax!!

dear lord is this still going on?

i was certain it was a troll.

mamazon i thought troll too

or v stooopid