to think that 6000 per month is excessive for the government to take off my pay for tax?

[tootaxed]

Surely there should be a maximum limit that each person has to pay as tax? Six grand per month in tax is just excessive imo. And that is before NI contributions etc. If the government set a maximum tax limit they would take more care over how they spent their central funds. And I wouldn't have to work so many hours away from my DCs only to have 72 bloody grand a year taken off my income to fund their mis-spending.

I like your mother's turn of phrase pagwatch. That's a good one.

strange to be so seemingly proud of being so hardened

my sister encounters many Xenias in her job, soooooo glad I chose a different profession

I was on another post the other day and Xenia felt the need to tell everyone she earned £ 350k+.

How does she know that others in this thread do not earn more than her? Why is it so important for her to let everyone know how much she earns?

No-one seems impressed though - thank the lord for that ! She is thankfully in a minority and lets hope that she stays there.

350K is that all? I'm surprised (genuinely).

Must point out that we earn nowhere near 350K But my surprise comes from knowing lots that do (and more) and the vast majority do not think remotely like her. The ones I've met that do generally earn millions or have been born into enormous wealth (and therefore really don't have a clue).

Yes FF- Boasting on MN is pretty unimpressive.
A bit sad too

I think working mothers tend to be better parents. If that annoys housewives I am sure their egos can cope with that if they are sure of their own position. There are plenty of comments that children are damaged by women work (never men of course) pretty regularly to and in a free country we can each express our views.

But it's a very broad generalisation to say women who work hard, earn a lot and have children are not as happy or as self satisfied or have as good a family life as those who don't. It's like saying the poor are happy and the rich are sad. It just doesn't work like that. Some people are born miserable and whatever life throws at them they are jealous and unhappy and others are positive whatever their circumstances.

Lots of things make me happy not least having 5 children and spending time with them, family and friends, hobbies etc. I don't think I'm particularly unrounded. I sing. I was at bikran yoga yesterday after I'd taken the children to church and we had a good lunch. I have my island. We ski. I think I do loads of things that aren't just work work work and earning a lot in a sense give you the chance to do that. Itf's people queuing for the 5am bus to do the early cleaning shift who have fewer choices or the mother depressed at home with the 3 under 5s on prozac who has a harder time.

Oh and don't let me forget my achievement of the morning - removal of skirtng board, installation of new drying and (and this was very difficult - I needed all my core strength) removal of very tough screws to reverse the way the door opened on the drier.

You have my sympathy

Dont you think that the tax hurts the people that only earn £800 a month more than it hurts you ???

I like Xenia and think she talks a lot of sense, not always palatable, but often spot on.

All those people who're saying they're highly educated and have chosen to stay at home are amongst the exceptions she referred to.

I was a SAHM for years btw, so in some ways I should sit on both sides of the fence. I realised however that being at home with children was great for them, great for making me feel I was doing the right thing, but ultimately making me deeply unhappy. Having had a fantastic careeer before children and then to be at home only concerning yourself with your childrens needs made me feel lost. Where was my I? In the meantime we struggled financially, dh earns well, but family life is expensive.

I decided to start my own business, its going very well, I'm much happier and therefore so are the rest of the family. In addition the financial pressures are reducing daily. I'm a much better mother for it, my time with the children is pure quality and rarely duty. If I can build my business up so that my tax equates to 6K per month I would have a huge sense of satisfaction and be setting myself up as a good role model to my children.

Paying tax isn't funny and I begrudge seeing chunks of my hard earned money going elsewhere. However my mother was a single parent and I don't know how we would have survived without the help of the state, so actually paying up is the right thing to do.

(Thanks scanner; yes they're the exceptions - go to any school gate and the female surgeons and company directors etc will be in work and those who used to earn about what a nanny earns or were failing in their careers tend to be the ones who stay at home. Anyway this thread only moved down that rather unhelpful line when people seemed to begrudge women who earn a lot their money and wanted them to be taxed more not less)

Also tax starts at too low a level too. It would be better if it started nearer £10k or even £15k a year particularly now we abolished the 10% band.

Some couples will both work to take advantage of two personal allowances which I suppose some people might say should be banned. Two earning up to say £35k will pay less than than one on £70k, all the more reason for women to work and use that lower tax band

Xenia - from what I have read on here - there wasn't a broad generalisation about people who earn a lot - in fact it was quite the opposite.....it was only your attitude to money and SATM/working mums that was pretty divisive and short sighted/sad.

I think it's awful. You are obviously a slave to the lifestyle you have become accustomed to. Quit your job and become some kind of hermit, you'll be much happier. 'Tis easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, etc etc...

I fail to see how having a successful career makes you a better parent? In the same way, i fail to see how sahm's make better parents than working parents??

How do you come to these 'facts'?

Personally i think that success can be measured in lots of ways ...not merely by the size of the paypacket. It is far far more important to me that my children are brought up as rounded individuals who care about both themselves and society as a whole.

I would feel that i have really failed them if they grew up to be narrow minded, making the same sweeping generalizations as you have made. I'm not concerned about offending you ...i'm sure your ego can cope ...

But it is what I have said before...
most of us would stand up and applaude 90% of Xenias comments until she tips into the realms of the sweepingly general and the frankly absurd.

Xenia - making crude generalisations about SAHM's is not good. And defending it by saying 'well people accuse working mums of x'is cheap. Being as crass as the next MNer is not a great intellectual high ground.
I don't think working mothers are less able, caring or loving than SAHM's. I don't think intelligent women are better mums than less smart ones. And I don't think having a job and earning money makes you happier.

You advocate beautifully for working, career driven women. But then you sneer at those who chose otherwise, imply that it always means that they lack somehow and it just makes you seem.... well not nice. And a bit silly really.

Xenia yourchoices are yours, mine are mine please stop ramming your beliefs down people's throats at every chance. You seem to feel you have to justify your choices as being the only ones that are acceptable (at every possible chance) sorry but this screams of insecurity.

A lot of stay at home mothers say that's best for children, don't they so I was just making the case the other way about.

In general worldwide studies show that children are best helped by having educated mothers. Most of those mothers work. Cleverer mothers who know about psychology and have good emotional intelligence tend to be better with their children. I would think the better educated higher earning mothers tend to be more likely to fall into that category than most of those who stay at home.

If those who pay virtually no tax want to criticise those who do then they have to be prepared for comments back on their own situations. I am sure as they know what they are doing is right they can cope with contrary views.

Having a good education / career/IQ does not mean you have a high EI or psychology knowledge - I think you are confusing the 2. For example, I think you show a very substantial lack of both emotional intelligence and psychology knowledge in the way you address mothers who may be SAH, however it does seem you have a good education.

Also, you are not quoting facts, you are 'quoting' 'studies', which are not always based on fact, at the best opinion.

Tootaxed any jobs going at your place?

I've never equated bigotry (about anything) to equate to high intelligence (IQ or EQ)

[bored]

OP is just showing off

[hides thread]

Xenia those generalisations are awful. Havent you experienced enough of life to understand that there are no such hard and fast rules in this sphere?

Fwiw I worked with some hugely successful women and several of them were, sadly, really struggling with motherhood. They had to get nannies to bring up their children as they did not have the skillset required to raise small children. This was not my judgement on them, but what they told me.

Some escaped into working very long hours because they couldn't cope at home with the children, even in the evenings (much like some "high achieving" men). That said some of these successful women were great mothers so no generalisations here.

Oh and I think you would have to be a saint to be a high earner and not take a sharp intake of breath at the amount of tax you pay. I can understand the OP's upset after working so hard and seeing all those thousands floating away...

I think it depends partly on personal circumstances and a lot on personality.