To think the ambulance service weren't at fault here?

[Greenvelvetdress]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-68310754

Really sad story with a sad outcome but I do feel like in this situation the ambulance service weren't at fault. When the women rang she was told they wouldn't be sending an ambulance and to call back if she got worse.

Her son was in the house with her and her daughter in law states that if he'd been told to take her to a&e he would have done... surely he could have rung back or looked at how unwell his mum was and made this decision himself?

I do think the wait times for ambulances and the state of the NHS is appalling due to lack of funding but don't think they can be blamed for everything...

So as their mother got worse, they sat there and watched? Sorry but you need to take care of the situation. The call handler clearly deemed it not an ambulance situation. Sadly she got worse. Why not put her in a car and take her? Why do they feel they needed to be spoon fed? If you feel hungry eat, don't wait to be told to have some food.

I agree.
They clearly stated an emergency ambulance was not coming and to call back if symptoms worsened.
I think phoning the GP was wrong in this scenario and being taken to urgent care by family would have been the best course of action.

Very sad situation

I agree.
GP's are not an emergency service.
Certainly not the place for someone who can't breathe.

Some people, unfortunately, will, without any critical thinking (which I accept can be a challenging in such a situation), trust the words of something like an emergency call centre. These are the same sorts of people who complain about politics but don't vote or who attack local business via social media without asking for a resolution first.

They didn't send an ambulance as according to their script her condition wasn't life threatening. Clearly their script is wrong.

Whenever I’ve called 999 or 111 (multi times due to my parents health issues) I’ve always been told to ring back if symptoms get worse.

Such a sad situation. The ambulance service aren’t at fault but the system is because it’s so badly broken.

I haven’t worked in the NHS for a few years but there are so many people who don’t want to put any extra stress on the system and they’re almost always the ones who should be banging down the door to get in front of a hcp. But the messaging has been for years, so focussed on ‘time wasters’ that people just don’t trust themselves anymore.

even now, with all the huge waits, strikes and shortages I would always encourage people to get themselves in front of a dr or nurse and let them make the call on how serious their condition is. Even that’s not infallible because if they worsen or it goes on too long people tend to think they’ve been given the ok to just sit tight and wait.

9 times out of 10 a hcp is happy to tell someone their red flag symptoms are benign, worst case scenarios aren’t something anyone wants.

They can only respond to the answers given.

I don't understand why the son needed to be told to take her to A&E. Surely common sense would tell you to go, if an ambulance is going to be a while. People must take some responsibility for their own health.

They were respnding to someone who was dying of pneumonia. If they didn't get the answers necessary to understand that then they're not asking the right questions.

This is so true. People don't take responsibility for anything anymore. You only have to read any one of the many threads on what schools should be teaching to know this.

Without knowing the questions that were asked we cannot know this.

I remember a few years ago, a mum was messing around trying to get the GP to see her adult son, who had been ill for a few days, and deteriorated. He was clearly seriously ill and it never occurred to her to take him to hospital. He died.

The problem is that you can't tell if your oxygen levels are dangerously low. It's a silent killer. She may well not have known her condition was worsening.

It’s a very sad story but the call handler didn’t deem it an emergency at the time the call was made - she deteriorated so the family should have put another 999 call in. Our GP has a recorded message when you call to say if you believe you have a life threatening condition to hang up and call 999.
or the family could have taken her to A&E.

I agree the system is broken and there should be shorter wait times for everything, ambulances, GP appointments, referrals etc etc but the NHS is overwhelmed.
I hope her family can find some peace

Well they were incorrect not sending an ambulance in the first place. I keep seeing on here that people are using ambulances as taxi services or when they break a nail. How are these time wasters always getting ambulances sent when seriously I’ll people aren’t. There must be an issue with the script

@MrTiddlesTheCat this is true... But if she didn't know, the service operator on the phone definitely can't have been expected to!

We can, because they didn't send an ambulance and the woman died.

How do you balance that if you have a patient who gives misleading answers? I am not saying that’s happening here.

Without the transcript no one really comment on the details of this call.

Her family have to take some responsibility. You don't sit & watch a family members condition deteriorate and do nothing. Especially when by your own admission you could take them to hospital yourself.

We don't know what information was given to the call handler so its pretty unfair to criticise them.

Again, we have no idea what the questions were. We really don't.

Which is why they should have sent someone. It's not right to err on the side of doing nothing. If someone rings with chest pain you treat it as a heart attackuntil you know otherwise. If someone is having trouble breathing you treat it as life threatening until you know otherwise.

Agree, this one is on the son.

It should have been patently obvious to a grown adult that she needed urgent medical help.

Posted too soon - he had three hours to observe his mother and make his decision after she had made her first call, if I've read it right.

Ambulances are allocated based on need l, but they can only go on what they are told. I actually think that those with means to do so when physically possible should use cars, unless you live very rurally or traffic is particularly bad it's nearly always quicker to drive to a&e (it's 20-25 minutes from our town, even if an ambulance comes inn12 minutes I can be half way there!) leaving the ambulances for those who cannot be moved or genuinely have no other transport means. There's volunteer drivers in my town - you can post on facebook for urgent transport to a&e or minor injuries.

Ambulances are needed for some but not all emergencies