"A smart child will do well in any school" - not true?

[TBNT]

Inspired to ask this due to another thread.

But it's something that's been said to me countless times over the years when looking at the (pretty awful) schools in our local area.

I have always politely nodded while thinking in my head "I'm pretty sure my very academic, yet nerdy and socially anxious child wouldn't do very well in that school"

And until reading on here today hadn't seen that opinion expressed elsewhere and just felt like I was being unreasonable in my own head.

So just that really - I've heard of kids coming out of rough comps with loads of 9s. But I genuinely feel that a child like my eldest DD would not achieve what she's capable of in a place she felt uncomfortable.

YANBU

It really does depend on the personality of the child

I did "OK" in my school, definitely better than a lot of my peers, but compared to people from better schools, I'm average at best.

Fight for the best school for your daughter

When you say she would feel
uncomfortable do you assume that the other pupils will be hissing at her all day long or something?

If she is bright then she will succeed and get good grades.

Not true! My smart child lasted 1 term at school before I took him out as he was being bullied and the teachers did nothing! It broke his spirit. It was soul destroying to see the demise in my child in such a short time.

He is thriving now away from this school

'Rough' comps are full of a diverse range of kids- your daughter might not feel comfortable in a non 'rough' school either.

Like you, I doubt this very much.

A smart, confident, extroverted, neurotypical child without disabilities, ideally sporty, not of a race / religion likely to attract bullies wherever they live, is pretty likely to do well at any school.

A smart child can succeed academically without good teaching, with some initiative and family encouragement. But other aspects of life, especially school life can undermine their academic progress very easily.

'A smart child will get good grades in any school', but that still depends on the child actually being taught. If the school's not covering all the necessary material, let alone any further learning extending the basics of the curriculum, it's difficult for children to supplement this themselves.

DS is very bright (4 A*s @ A- level on course for a 1st in a STEM subject at Oxbridge). I know he would have never have achieved that in our local sink school. To link here would be outing but happy to share which school if anyone wants to PM me. Has been Ofsted inadequate for as long as anyone can remember.

I assume, like at her primary school, that she'd be sniffed out like an easy target and be picked on for sport.

That the damage to her self esteem for finding astronomy and mythical gods more interesting than Roblox would have only intensified once puberty kicked in.

No it's bollocks.

There are probably a few kids out there who are laser-focused, very driven and who basically teach themselves the syllabus and pass exams with not much teacher input. They would do well in any school.

Most kids are not like that. Most kids would find it really hard to learn in an environment where they are bullied and picked on for doing their homework, answering in class and being a swot. Most would find it hard to get any work done at all when their classmates are swearing at the teacher and chucking chairs about. Or when the school can't recruit permanent teachers and the kids are having to make do with a procession of able and well-qualified teachers, but who up and leave for a permanent position as soon as it comes up. Or in a school where academic achievement is low, and the school doesn't offer more than one or two A-levels/Advanced Highers because there isn't the demand. Or where the general attitude is that school is for mugs, you're there to have fun with your mates rather than learn anything, and messing about is just what you do.

It's a trite phrase which some parents trot out to make themselves feel better about their own situation.

People over exaggerate all extremes.
Kids do well if pushed by parents and study hard. So yes can do well even if school isn't the best. But a child won't do well if bullied. But bullying often over exaggerated by people who don't even go to these schools.
All the big city comps I know have high academic kids that stick together and middle road ones that stick together and kids who aren't interested. They tend to stick in own tribe

A smart child will do even better home educated.

Also to me - good grades would mean nothing if she ended up hating herself.

So 'doing well' in school to me doesn't mean just getting a load of good GCSEs.

Not true. I’m a teacher and in classes with constant disruption and poor behaviour we just don’t get the content covered like I do in classes with excellent behaviour. 1 or 2 “characters” can be enough to destroy the whole class learning environment.
I don’t have many classes like that but I do teach in a naice area but the impact of this on outcomes is undeniable. Especially on girls in my opinion, they don’t get a voice in a classroom that is full of boisterous boys.

I wish we had more emphasis on keeping all children safe at school than on their academic achievement. Given the choice I'd prioritise the first for any child of any ability.

Bright does not equal self motivated. Bright but easily led
Bright but lazy
Bright but lacking in confidence
Bright but lacking social skills
Bright but developing MH issues
Bright but masking intelligence to fit in

none of those will achieve without resources, support, and belief from adults around them.

I often read 'Bright will do well anywhere' and think 'what rot!'

@TBNT you'll prob find there's clubs in school for kids with similar interests. Ours has loads lunch clubs & she'd find similar kids

Just anecdata but I couldn't help but notice that this is more true for girls at least academic wise.

I also agree that not having your mental health wrecked by the experience is also important.

I feel like every 'bright but' that you listed describes DD1.

It's a hard world for her to traverse.

I went to a grammar school with a brilliant reputation and great results and hated every minute of it. I did OK, but probably could have done better.

I made a point of sending my kids to a comprehensive. They all thrived and had a much more diverse and enriching education than I did.

Only if they have setting for all subjects.

Not true. At my local school, the teachers treated the kids like prisoners, and we were at odds. Teachers wanted to control us, kids wanted to rebel (so it felt). There was no motivation to do well, and it wasn't cool to do well.

A scholarship to a private school was another world and suddenly I was enjoying the competition and getting A*s.

It's utter bullshit. I started secondary as a straight A pupil and left after five years without a single GCSE "pass". That was because I was bullied daily, not just verbally, but physical assaults and property damage. I started to hide during breaks and lunchtimes to avoid them. Teachers were utterly useless and just did the usual victim blaming of "fight back". The two worse were either side of me in the alphabet so when lazy teachers set seating plans or groups by alphabet I was always put on the same table or in the same group as them. No one, however "bright" will do well in that kind of environment! I pleaded to change forms, change groups, etc., but teachers wouldn't have any of it. My parents tried their best but were of the era where they trusted teachers, and so they started blaming me for not being tough enough too! I ended up truanting to avoid them. It's not as if the school and teachers were any good - it was a failing crap comp where lessons were more crowd control than teaching. Of course, some got a string of As - they were the bullies!!!

Once I left, I did evening classes at the local college to get my GCSE and A levels and then went on to study for Chartered Accountancy exams. So definitely not a lack of ability or work ethic.

it is completely false that a clever child learns anywhere. my child is ridiculously clever. I didn’t even know how clever he was though I did know he was cleverer than what he was showing in school. Yet he consistently failed exams and was in the bottom sets at school. I now home educate him and he has a tutor for his lessons who adapts the teaching to the way my child understands and he suddenly acing every tests etc put in front of him. He doesn’t learn the way school teach, he gets anxious and cannot concentrate in noisy classrooms, being subjected to bullying every day and having teachers who do not understand his additional needs just added to his failing mental health. He now has different groups of friends he sees weekly where he had literally 1 friend at school and is about to start a 14-16 college course. Best thing I ever did for him was take him out of the failing educational system in the uk.

Smart children will get an education in any school, but they are failed in most schools because the emphasis tends to be on those that are behind. The smart ones are always ahead of where the class is. I guess a lot depends on the streaming and if there are enough smart kids to be a stream with appropriate teaching. It's really difficult to teach mixed ability groups particularly with large classes. A large comp should have a good top stream which is likely to have pupils with a different attitude to the ones where the children would rather not be there at all.

I agree that quiet, nerdy, socially anxious children won't thrive in a rough bullying environment, but that applies to smart and not so smart children.

They probably 'do well' in comparison to the national average because they're already smart.

But they might not 'do well' compared to their potential, depending on other factors like their personality and how much they are self motivated vs needing a push.