What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

Whilst I disagree with @Cyclebabble stance on trans people I think it’s important to mention that disabled toilets are adapted for the use of disabled people but are not just for disabled people.
When we calculate number of toilet units we include accessible toilets ( sometimes called disabled toilets ) into that equation. They are there for everyone and people with prams, needing to help children or just desperate for a wee and can’t make it to other toilets can use them. Along with trans people who shouldn’t be in woman's toilets.
Anyone can.
They provide additional space for disabled people but are not exclusively for their use. They are not the same as disabled parking spaces.

@StolenCookie so if sex is distinct from gender, and you don't subscribe to the view that they are inextricably linked, why do they need to go in to sex based spaces?

You can’t reduce an entire group of people to the actions of a few.

No one is doing that.

But as there is no way to distinguish good men from bad, opening the doors to all is a massive safeguarding fail against women. Why don't you care about this?

Also, can you give us the number of women that you think would be acceptable as collateral damage?

It’s a sad fact that these incidents will happen, but the solution is not to ban whole groups of people from certain spaces or professions

Wow. So you really don't think any woman or girl should be allowed single sex spaces for their safety, privacy and dignity, and should be happy getting undressed in front of men?

Do you even understand how safeguarding works?

Equating keeping men out of women's single sex spaces to banning men from something like teaching is fucking ridiculous.

The risk to women and girls as a sex class from men as a sex class was so great they legally allowed for certain spaces, were women and girls are at their most vulnerable, to be kept single sex.

Trans women are still all welcome in my changing rooms, and they are women to me

So you put male feelings above female safety? Well done.

In what way is a man a type of woman?

I'm genuinely interested in what that would look like for you? You say sex and gender are separate, so presumably mean that your sons sex would not be changed by his decision to adopt the 'gender' of woman. So, what do you think that would mean? What does the gender of woman look like to you, other than using her rather than him, and saying daughter not son? What is the special woman gender he would acquire that gave him the right to use opposite sex changing rooms? This is a genuine question as I'm struggling to understand this view point.

So, any evidence other than your 10 second googling?

Have you understood that even the WHO disagrees with you that there is not enough evidence to make the misinformation claim that you made? Or you believe you know better than the experts?

I think that all the disabled people that I speak would disagree with you on that. Unless they are signed to be also parent rooms, the disabled people who discuss this issue make the point that they campaigned extensively for those facilities and ask that people stop using them.

31!

Ask stupid questions, get stupid answers.

I don’t accept the premise that allowing trans women into female spaces = women are collateral damage. Do YOU accept that allowing men to continue to work as teachers, doctors, police officers means that all future female victims of male offenders in these professions are collateral damage of your ideology that it’s acceptable for men to work with vulnerable groups of people?

Is your son magic? Because that's the only way he can become she.

Agreed with many others. Do what you want but don't force me to accept it or cater to you.
Biology is biology and Psychology is psychology i.e it is all mental health issues. Not to mention the studies in recent years on the impacts on the family unit snd young children.

I respect every one as a human being but leave me well out of this. Especially those that are uaing it as an excuse to expose minors to very inappropriate things as you see drag performances etc with toddlers and kids.

The gender of woman doesn’t ‘look like’ anything other than a person telling me they identify as a woman. I believe trans women are women. That’s really all it comes down to.

I don’t accept the premise that allowing trans women into female spaces = women are collateral damage.

Thats only because your head is in the sand. As a PP pointed out, women have already been raised by TW in bathrooms. You just refuse to believe this, don't give a shit?

Do YOU accept that allowing men to continue to work as teachers, doctors, police officers means that all future female victims of male offenders in these professions are collateral damage of your ideology that it’s acceptable for men to work with vulnerable groups of people?

These men are vetted, trained have professional codes of connect, supervisors, sanctions if they overstep boundaries. For the most vulnerable women in vulnerable circumstances, they would have the option of asking for a woman instead.

You REALLY can't tell this difference between this and merrily inviting any man who fancies it into other women's spaces?

Are you honestly that intellectually challenged? Or do you simply give so feed shits about women that you haven't even thought that through.

Which is it?

Haha. I know you didn’t intend for this to sound sweet but yes he really is magic! 🪄

I believe trans women are women.

So you're scientifically illiterate. Got it.

The gender of woman doesn’t ‘look like’ anything other than a person telling me they identify as a woman. I believe trans women are women. That’s really all it comes down to.

So they don't have to go into a sex based area then? They can just stick to their own sex spaces? Great!

(Do grown adults really believe this?)

Hmm. Yes all this vetting, training, professional codes of conduct, sanctions, etc, and STILL women continue to be raped and assaulted by men in these professions.

Ban all men from all things!

No?

So you think a rapist who identifies as a woman should be placed in a women's prison?

Or a biological male who now identifies as a woman (whatever the fuck that means, no one can ever really say) should compete against women, (the ones with vaginas)? Despite their physiological advantages.

How very progressive of you. Oh and KIND! Very kind.

Hmm. Yes all this vetting, training, professional codes of conduct, sanctions, etc, and STILL women continue to be raped and assaulted by men in these professions.

Yet what you are saying is - do away with all safeguarding and let men have access to whatever women and women's spaces they want

Do you hear yourself?

*Ban all men from all things!

No?*

No just try and safeguard as much as you can. You don't seem to be getting that.

It’s a sad fact that these incidents will happen, but the solution is not to ban whole groups of people from certain spaces or professions

Down my sports club we have a large juniors (u18) section. We have a club policy whereby no adults can share the changing rooms while the juniors are there. The only adults allowed on the premises are the coaches and senior club officers, all of whom have been DBS checked and undergone safeguarding training. It exists as part of our wider welfare and safeguarding policy that our sports governing body mandates that all clubs must have in place. So we have effectively 'banned' a whole group of people from the club at certain times, safeguarding works that way, it's exclusionary in its nature, the adult membership understand this and buy in to it rather then moan about how unfair it is that a few bad apples spoil it for everyone else. We take a zero tolerance approach, you seem to take an oh well these things happen approach.

You’re calling them sex-based spaces.

But toilets and changing rooms that allow both men and women are called gender neutral, not sex neutral.

But the law doesn’t disagree I’m afraid.
They are accessible rooms, nothing more.
Im aware disabled people aren’t happy about it but they are not spaces designed for their sole use.

I didn’t say let men have access to women’s spaces.

I said trans women should have access to women’s changing rooms.

To me, trans women are women.

Anyone identifying as a man can use a male changing area.

Very simple.

Safeguarding needs to include trans people too.

Ok, so your stance is unconditional acceptance that a person is the gender they tell you they are. But 'woman gender' must still look like something, otherwise how do trans women know they have it? Logically it can't just be based on feelings as they can't know how it feels to be the opposite sex, so they must have some sort of checklist in mind as to what woman gender looks like.