AIBU To think that Labour is more against aspirations than the Conservatives?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Both of the above are ready to shaft the hard-working people who have not just worked hard, but spent/invested wisely rather than throw it way on lifestyles.

IMO, Labour is seriously anti those with some investments, EG, BTL, and people who own another property. People who have savings etc as these people decided not to blow away their money but be wise with it

Both, Labour and Tories don't give a flying F about those that own even a single property when it comes to care home charges. The new alliance is a con. So, if you don't own you home as about 45% of England does not, you are unlikely to be shafted unless you have large amount of savings for your rainy day/retirement etc

The extra tax on cars , ir road tax pay extra in their hundreds/thousands on cars costing more than 40k new RRP was set several years ago and not been adjusted for inflation - thanks to Tories

LL's getting hammered by new rules always favouring the T's - There are many good LL's as well as T's, so why penalise asperations?

We boguth a couple of properties to fund our retirement, erly retirement and went without hols/etc for many years and at times both of us worked 50 hours a week, 6/7 days a week. We also did not want to live of the state and pass money etc to our children/grandchildren to help them to a less stressful start thn us.

Though both Lab/Con are as bad as the other, if you've saved a few qquid, earn a decent amount of money and have more than one property, AIBU to think the Labour lot will shat us hard, seriously hard and waste money on foolish projects in order to secure votes for the next election if they win this election?

@Dogfisher OK, so it's wilfully applying different criteria to different age groups for the same piece of ID in order to gain electoral advantages. Not sensu strictu gerrymandering because it isn'tabout shifting boundaries of neighbourhoods. Still corrupt though, unless you think it's acceptable? It's shifting boundaries of what is and is not valid ID depending on how old you are. Calling out corruption doesn't require pedantry.

So you won't be voting Labour after all?

Rees Mogg called it a gerrymandering scheme

Words have meanings and you have clearly googled what it means now so it's all good.

Totally agree with @ExtraOnions

OP, to put it as politely as I can, you are full of rubbish. Most hard working people I know have nothing to show for it and are struggling to stay afloat. The kind of people you are talking about, the ones who have property and investments, the type of people who benefit from a tory govermment, are frankly not "hard working" people at all- it's either older people ("boomers"), who benefitted from decent salaries and cheap house prices, hoarding all of their wealth and property, or it's all generational, or what I call "unearned", wealth. They were simply lucky enough to be born wealthy. I bet you're one of those people who thinks that if someone is poor/can't afford property/can't get a good job, then it's their own fault because they simply don't work hard enough 😂 If anyone has ruined aspirations, it's the tories: Raising tuition fees and getting rid of maintainance grants and replacing that with expensive loans, putting off many working class students from going to uni, low wages that havent risen in line with inflation, cuts to services that used to help thousands, mortgages and property being virtually unattainable unless you want to live on a shit hole estate- the type of shit hole estates many hard working people have worked hard to get out of. I could go on. Many people are now thinking "what's the point in working hard?".

@rc473 "..the pension age for my age group is now 71!"

No it isn't. No decision has been taken beyond retiring at 68 for those born after 1977.

We also need to remove this “hard working” narrative. There are many people in this country who can’t “work hard” because they have chronic illnesses, disabilities or caring responsibilities. That doesn’t make them lesser people or less worthy of support or a good life. It reminds me of the “deserving and undeserving poor” of Victorian ages.

The rich use it to keep us proles in our place and boy has it worked in the last 14 years 😢🤬

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator
Oh, I see you're back with another thread. The last one didn't go too well. Was it extra VAT on items over £500?
Banging on about the usual theme....Labour bad....Tories good.
Maybe time for a NC?

I will be because I think the economy is screwed either way, at least Labour are a change, although I don’t have high hopes for that change.

Sorry I don’t understand this. So have a team of professionals who go home to home and inspect it for hazards? I don’t think children’s accidents are a big factor in the NHS?

Accidents are not the main cause of hospital admissions - highest cause is dental extractions.

Surestart was great, the Tory idiots dismantled it.

Well, I suppose they might want to maximise their opportunities to line their own pockets and hang around like a bad smell for another 11 months.

Yes I really believe early intervention is key. A lot of children simply aren’t being properly cared for from birth and it’s stunting their development and giving them poor foundations for learning at school. They’re not interacted with, not read to, they don’t eat healthy food, they don’t have a good sleep routine, they’ve been watching YouTube since 6 weeks old.

I don’t know whether parenting classes would even be attended or listened to, a lot of people think they know better or just can’t be bothered. Nursery places don’t kick in until 2, I think damage has been done by then. I can’t think of a solution if I’m honest.

I think they’ll jump just as the childcare kicks in in September.

The problem with Surestart is the same problem with the holiday clubs. They are populated by middle class mums getting free stuff, not the people it's targeted at, but the people these things are targeted at are not attending, so the services are wasted. Im not syre what the answer is to that either, or how to reach out to those families. However, Surestart did make a difference despite this. Now the Tories have taken Labour's pre school dental policy and repackaged it as their own. This is why Labour don't reveal any policy.

Why shouldn’t the middle class mums get something for free?

Surestart was not (from my experience) populated by middle class mums. The schemes were often attached to primary schools in fairly deprived areas. My sister was chair of Governors at one such school, and Surestart made a massive difference … it was a disgrace when it was stopped.

Well, naptrappedmummy, I will let you into a little secret.

The initiative I outlined was real. Sure Start (as others have mentioned, but I don't think you made the link?), introduced in 1998.

The savings to the NHS that I quoted were also real (stats calculated by the Institute for Fiscal Studies).

There were many other positive outcomes such as four positive outcomes for mothers and families (more stimulating and less chaotic home environments, less harsh discipline, and greater life-satisfaction).

http://www.ness.bbk.ac.uk/impact/documents/RB067.pdf

Sure start was really popular and deemed so important that the day before the 2010 election Cameron promised to keep funding for the centres. He said that Gordon Brown's warnings that the Tories would take an axe to them was scaremongering

You can guess what happened next. Yes! The Tories took an axe to the funding for Sure Start. Since 2010, the policy of austerity has led to the closure of 1,416 Sure Start centres in England (down from a total of 3,620 in 2010 to 2,204 in 2023) – a figure that doesn’t even include children’s centre sites linked to Sure Start

Even the Tories now know this was a mistake. Sunak said he will open 75 “family hubs” by 2025.

"Having drilled a hole in a bucketful of water 13 years ago, the Conservative government is trickling some back in again and asking the country to ignore the leak" is how the Spectator put it.

One thing is clear. All the main parties will tax you hard (unless you are mega millions rich, then the tories will leave you alone) they might swap it around and call it something else, but they'll get it from you one way or another.
It's a question of which party you think will spend it better and if you believe in a trickle down economy or not.
That's if you are basing your vote on finances.

Sorry, it was the New Statesman which said that, not the Spectator.

This is not true.

In my area the Surestart centres did a lot of work and activities that were targeted.

There were ALSO some general groups and HV drop ins open to all but they worked to benefit the local population too, spotting health issues early and providing wider support.

The services were absolutely not wasted. It was a great use of money.

In my area the Surestart centres did a lot of work and activities that were targeted.

I completely agree-I taught at a school with one attached-it was fantastic in supporting our families.

I never stated they were doing "well" far from it and mostly thanks to the dangerous idiot the toy members voted in, the one before Rishi.
That woman I've said it before she became a lol leader of England that she'd either get us nuked or bankrupt ad she'd stay i office for a few weeks,

I'm no fan of the selfish Tories or the left-wing lot, trust me. They are as bad as each other and that is a fact.

Tories would try to butter up voters in our financial position on the hole and Lab would try to butter on those in social housing/benefits, low wages.

Both of them put themselves first, big business second, the serious rich next and all of us last. If you are disagreeing with this, then you deserve the gov you get

Tores bang on about "aspirations being rewarded" like fuck do they. The lab lot will give you a free house and much higher benefits and a great NHS - will the fuck.

Look at Labour gov in Wales - they are doing a great job - lol, but I won't as many are suffering under them

It’s almost as if after embarrassingly losing another couple of by elections, the Tory bots are out in force today ………

Surestart hasn't been stopped