Toddler's new school think he's autistic & they can't cope

[Frenchmartini02]

We live overseas, DS (3yo) moved from nursery to a private montessori school 2 months ago. We haven't had any concerns raised or feedback during this time, maybe the odd comment at pickup, nothing formal. We had a parents evening this week to discuss how things are going. They told us that they felt his behaviour was not age appropriate and they had concerns for the the safety of other children. They told me that DS had been throwing scissors, running with scissors, hitting teachers & children, pulling hair, taking teachers glasses, trying to bite. They think he doesn't make eye contact, does unusual things with his hands, and is unable to interact socially with his peers, but is very clever and affectionate. They propose that we reduce the hours he does - currently in for 5 hours per day 4 days a week, they suggest to do 4 hours to see if it helps. They've said they would like me to ask his pediatrician for an assistant to shadow him.
I suspected my DS had some behavioural issues before he started school but wanted to see how he found school as I'd had some issues at home. But he had attended nursery for 2 years right up until starting school and they didn't have any concerns or problems and reassured me that they thought his behaviour was in line with his peers. I have seen the pediatrician this week and he has been referred for an assessment.

My AIBU is that I feel the school has handled it badly? They didn't explicitly say they think my son is autistic but strongly implied it and I feel they looked for signs that fit the profile. If my son was throwing scissors, hurt a teacher or pupil etc I would expect to have been told on the day it happened - I feel that this has been sprung on me with no reference to dates, timing, triggers so I can't get a bigger picture of when it happened. They acknowledge that he was not behaving like this when he started but that it's got progressively worse but can't tell me from when or recall specific incidents. He's also only been there for 2 months with Christmas break in between so it doesn't feel like very long for settling in and he's in a class with mixed ages 3-5. Whilst they came across as sympathetic and supportive during the meeting I also felt like they were looking for a way to remove him as a pupil. Also that they lack any kind of experience in this.
Obviously an assistant for DS will only be an option if he receives a diagnosis that supports that which is likely to take at least 6 months.
My gut feeling is to remove him, but that's off topic. First I need to work out how to tackle the school.

Do you not believe the incidents happened?

Gently, I think you’re finding it hard to accept DC might have additional needs, and looking for other explanations.

If he is assessed, they won’t find anything if there isn’t anything there.

No that's not it at all @ElevenSeven if I was finding it hard to accept I wouldn't have immediately gone to his pediatrician and asked for a referral to the psychologist. I will add I'm not sure I agree with the eye contact/hand movements and neither was the pediatrician. I also think there are some inconsistencies given that this behaviour was not seen at all at his nursery that he attended right up until starting school.

My AIBU is more to do with the way the school has handled it. If they are now saying they are very concerned about his behaviour towards the staff & children, surely the right thing to do would have been to flag it as and when it happened? There hasn't been any active feedback until now and it's escalated from zero to alot. If he didn't behave like this to begin with but now he is, I think a logical approach may have been to try to understand what triggered the incidents rather than jumping the gun and saying they think he's autistic. Also they themselves say they don't have any experience of this with any other students. But have settled on autism.
Fortunately I'm studying/retraining so I am able to immediately accommodate taking my son to school later so he has a shorter day but again, if it had been flagged earlier or when these incidents were occurring it would have been better.

Ultimately I don't feel it's an environment that's working for him but in the interim I need to wait for the assessment which is a few months away and come up with a plan in place on what's the best thing to do. But that's not what my AIBU is about.

Well yes, I would have expected to hear about serious incidents when they occurred. I think, from what I’ve read and heard, that the Montessori method is less relaxed than other settings perhaps. Maybe they are less used to managing behaviour they regard as extreme.

If you’ve lost confidence in the school, I’d move him, but go ahead with the assessment if you can. If the assessments indicate that he is ND, you’ll be in a position to decide the best provision for him.

I agree that they should have told you of each incident at the time it occurred. That sounds very strange.

I think they are correct in raising concerns about possible behavioural needs or ND without putting a label on anything specific. The yare not the people to diagnose these. They are suggesting that you consult with the people who are qualified to do this.

We had a similar thing happen when my DD started primary school at nearly 5. We’d always found her very defiant, wanted to always do her own thing, and a poor sleeper but luckily not violent. Very sensitive to noise as well. She was at the same nursery for 4 years and they never voiced any concerns.

The teacher waited a couple of months until the first parent’s evening then all the behaviour issues came out and we were made to feel like complete failures as parents. I didn’t understand why the teacher hadn’t discussed it sooner. It was a complete shock.

He's not actually been there that long, and the behaviour wasn't occurring right at the beginning. If each of those incidents was at the milder end, they may not have been worth reporting at the time.

Teachers / educators have to go heavy on the "we're very concerned" otherwise their concerns tend to get brushed off. I don't think this translates to them trying to get rid of him.

I do think it's possible that you are feeling a little defensive, OP, which would be very natural.

please google infant reflexes not going dormant

I can see why you feel blindsided, as a teacher parents evening should never be a surprise and the fact they've not mentioned any of these incidents before now would be a big red flag.

I'm not saying he definitely doesn't have additional needs but they have indeed handled this very poorly.

Often these behaviours are only unusual/notable when they're frequent. It's not uncommon for three year olds to occasionally lash out/throw things/. It may be the case that they didn't feel the need to report it to you until it became enough to reach a concerning level. At this point, knowing that parents evening was coming up, they've waited to talk to you in a calm, quiet, one on one environment rather than quickly at pick-up. They've raised concerns, but not diagnosed. They've suggested a small alteration (shorter day) that may help.

I don't think you have any reason to be upset with them really. It's horrible to hear that about your child and must have been a shock if there were no concerns at the previous school. It does sound like you're putting these feelings into anger at the school when they don't really deserve it though. Use your energy to work with the school not fight against them.

Or change school.

Do all children who misbehave automatically have to have something wrong with them? Couldn’t he just be a normal, albeit naughty 2 year old who is starting at childcare and needs a bit of discipline and boundaries? Chances are, given time he will be fine!

What were 'the odd comments at pick up' ? Yes they should have told you if he was hitting and biting on that day so that you could speak to him aswell, but does it really change anything?

He's 3 and teachers are professionals who have seen lots and lots of children come and go, they didn't try and diagnose him just suggested it would be worth exploring, throwing scissors and biting teachers is definitely not 'naughty' 3 year old territory

Yes they should have said something sooner IMO. Assuming nursery were being honest and he was calmer at nursery maybe the environment was better for him or staff were more available or attuned to his needs. Is it busier/louder/lower ratio at his new place? Are they telling him off a lot? He sounds a bit overwhelmed. I'm sure he won't get an autism diagnosis if he's not autistic - if you think school are wrong about doing unusual things with his hands don't worry too much, he will be observed and your feedback will also be included (assuming the process is similar to the UK). But maybe it's also possible he's been distressed there and so they have seen behaviour that you haven't. My 4yo is on the pathway, I've only seen him flap his hands on maybe 4 or 5 occasions when he was upset or frustrated - if I didn't have another autistic child I could easily have missed it.

Plus he had been at childcare elsewhere previously
Op it maybe he doesnt like the new place

However
Op does say she had concerns already

Im glad it seems the assesment will be quite soon as in uk waitlists are well over a year..

I have to say though op dc1 had some issues at preschool (defiance etc) but honestly not too bad and was only 3-4y. But it really escalated at 4y3 at starting school.
School didnt raise sen issues (even in 7yrs) but it has turned out to be that. (Asd)

How is your dc at clubs or swimming etc?

My concerns would be that they haven't told you about these incidents as they happened and they appear to have no plans to support him.

The school sen teacher needs to be involved a plan needs putting in place. He may benefit from small group interventions, sensory breaks.

Is there a referral plan in place?

A school that has never seen an autistic child before or any other with behavioural issues like this is a bit of a concern, all by itself isn’t it?

Given he didn’t behave this way when he started and they didn’t flag anything to you when incidents happened, I would wonder, to some extent whether this was down to new or very inexperienced staff in the room who don’t know how to enforce boundaries, have let your DS develop poor behavioural habits and are as you say, looking for reasons why that don’t include them being, well, a bit crap. Which isn’t to say your DS doesn’t have any additional needs, especially if you’ve noticed issues at home, just that those needs may not be that significant and I would take their armchair diagnosis with a large pinch of salt.

It’s difficult to know what to suggest. Moving schools when you don’t really know the full situation doesn’t sound like a good plan, it’s disruptive and could delay finding out if there actually are issues. But the school really do seem to be out of their depth on something that should be reasonably common. Do you have any info on the teachers in the class and what their experience/qualifications are? I would also voice my concern about the lack of any information on incidents as they were happening and waiting until it became a crisis for them before mentioning anything at all. Maybe ask what their classroom behaviour policy is and what training they receive.

It might be worth letting them know you're addressing their concerns but that you'd like it if they told you on the day that things are happening and gave you some idea of context. My kid wasn't eating at school - despite me asking (I had suspicions) I was told all was well until parents' eve when the teacher told me he was leaving all his food and just asking for plain white bread. It wasn't communicated until one member of staff took it upon themselves to say something, and sadly that's often been my experience - it happens when there's a conscientious member of staff, not as standard. This particular MOS really looked out for my kid and loved it when he was in after school club... He brought out the mama bear in her. It was only belatedly that I realised she was also reacting to other members of staff and their crud attitude towards him, but I digress. Basically not all staff are equal, OP - spell out what you expect.

Not ideal to offload historical incidents at once. What were the consequences, if any, at the time to avoid repeats? However Montessori is a rather different style of education to daycare, much more freedom and risk taking approach(using proper scissors and kitchen tools) which demands self discipline and impulse control he may not yet have developed. So the change may well have highlighted his behaviour.

I think the way a lot of Montessori settings run they really only suit quiet, obedient children. They generally don’t allow a lot of time to be physical and the activities are all based around things like like puzzles and other quiet, table based activities.

Naughtiness is not really the point. Both my sons have ASD. One had ADHD as well. As three year olds they were not naughty because they had been brought up with discipline and consequences. They were, in fact, very polite children. So children with "special needs" are not always naughty tearaways. It didn't mean they were cured of ASD though and they did learn in different ways to neurotypical children. For example, their ability to sprint at 11 months was a bit of a marker for something being different. They are young men now and I think people would find it very difficult to spot the very subtle signs of high functioning autism. One is a fifth year medical student. It annoys them that children who simply behave badly are so readily seen as possibly being ASD or ADHD as they think it reflects badly on their "community".

This.

Individual incidents are often dealt with and not noted as being out of the ordinary - particularly when new / settling in.
The point of a parents evening is to let you know how they are settling in, and this is a much better time to raise concerns than when you are in the doorway at pick up time, with your (tired) child holding on to you, and other parents passing.
You said yourself OP they haven't diagnosed anything, just raised concerns.
You also said that before he started, you had some concerns yourself.
A Nursery that looked after him from 0 - 2 may well have seen behaviours as being 'typical' for him as a 2 yr old, but, as he has turned 3, the same behaviours might stand out a little more, as his peers develop themselves.
I do think YABU to be upset with the Nursery, although having professionals pick up on behaviours that are out of sync with the norm, can be upsetting to hear as a parent, and your reaction isn't untypical.

I really really wish they wouldn't leave it till parents evening to throw these things at you. There should be no major surprises in that 10min slot!

OP. If you were in the UK I'd be saying fight for your child's right to a full time education. I don't know the impacts of reduced timetable where you are. Here once primary school age its considered wrong to force. If they can cope with him for 4 hours then they can cope for 5. His behaviour isn't going to significantly change in that last hour. It might be more about their staffing ratios.

In my experience, when I school or nursery setting raises the concern of autism etc, it usually turns out to be true.
Nursery told us our DS was probably autistic and we had to reduce his hours. We didn't believe it. Then we sent him off to start school, a few weeks later we got called in.
And I've lost count of the amount of parents who've had the same situation over the years. They don't want to believe it. Make all the excuses under the sun, "He's just big for his age and they expect too much" "The nursery/school just wants more funding" or "It's just not the right setting" Then it just ends up taking longer for diagnosis, but it still comes.
I get it. I said a lot of the same things. Nobody wants to hear it and it really hurts at first.
Get on the pathway for assessment as soon as you can, you've got nothing to lose.

If they can cope with him for 4 hours then they can cope for 5. His behaviour isn't going to significantly change in that last hour.

That's not necessarily true.
My ds has ASD and ADHD, and wasn't diagnosed until later.
But one thing was he really struggled in year R, but when they started doing detailed notes on his behaviour it was really clear that his flash points were in the last half an hour before lunch and the last hour at the end of the day. He rarely caused any issues outside those times.

So once they'd identified this, they realised that by taking a quick break (often they'd do something like ask him to carry something to another classroom) at about 11:15, that solved the lunch time issue. I suspect sometimes they gave him a biscuit then too. The afternoon was harder as a break wasn't enough to solve it, so they made sure for the last hour, he was doing something that kept him calm and within reach of a teacher/TA. In a lot of ways I think it would have been better to pick him up an hour early as he was just fully overloaded with sensory issues at that point, and so not really up to much.

I agree that they should have told you incidents when they happen but sometimes they can be small things that in isolation don’t mean much but as they happen more and more they build up a bigger picture.

in regard to his old nursery…I’ve had many children come to my Reception class where nursery haven’t seen any problems as such and it is very clear that there are within a short space of time when starting school.

last year I had a child in my class that nursery said was developmentally fine, meeting all milestones and absolutely nothing the worry about. This child has now been diagnosed with foetal alcohol syndrome - they were far from developmentally normal and are only now just getting the support they’ve needed!!