Am I the only fundie in the village (of MN?)

[porridgeisbae]

Anyone else?

So let's get this straight:

God is omnipotent and created the earth and universe but chose to create a version that has earthquakes and tsunamis that cause untold suffering.

God created humanity but chose to create a species that gets cancer etc. The free will argument doesn't work for this like it does for actively created evil.

There are multiple holy books and holy teachings but it's the Christian version that's right, not the Jewish or Muslim or Hindu etc one. These ones are WRONG.

Other people have referenced slavery being okay in the bible. You've noted that the coming of Jesus relieved Christian's of the need to keep Jewish laws (but not Jews?) but haven't noted where the Bible changes it's mind about slavery. Does it? I'd be interested to know where.

@Cwtshcwtsh a lot of his stuff makes me teary to be honest - have you listened to Absence of You yet? Absolutely beautiful 🥰

Hi troops I'm having a vegged out evening but will catch up tomorrow. Thanks for all your comments. x

There’s been a sing a long version of The Wicker Man?!

That’s what I’m taking from this thread.

They go round the country doing a few https://www.facebook.com/groups/102052247406

I don't think men are superior to women. God just says we have different roles and qualities. The snake offered Eve the apple, but it wasn't her whom God had told directly that they shouldn't eat it. Adam should've refused to eat it.

It's not just different roles and qualities though, is it? It's not like god is telling you that men are supposed to do the laundry and women are supposed to do household finances. It's that men are the head of the household, and that women should defer in all things to the male head of household. So, by definition, women are subservient to men.

You ,might not believe in it but He does care about it, or it wouldn't be in His word.

The bits about homosexuality and the role of women are in the NT.

Yes, people can twist the bible, for instance to let them do stuff they want or make the bible fit with another agenda they have. But the context etc of passages does help us know what it actually says.

There's always one that likes to think they are different, who cares!

@Thegoodbadandugly Well going by this thread, I genuinely am different to most posters. I'd rather not be.

God would be a cruel entity then who creates some children purely for them to only exist for a few agonising minutes desperately trying to breathe before they die.

@whatsitcalledwhen Who knows what His purpose is? It's not for us to know. But He will have one.

But you do think it's right, by your own logic, so what is the 'no' in reference to? Even if you don't think it's easy or simple, or you think it's a shame, you do absolutely believe it's right. You believe that your god's word says that child should be born no matter what. You believe that your god's word is right. So you dobelieve that it is right for a woman to have to carry to term even in those circumstances.

There are things the Bible implies we should and shouldn't do, which I personally wish were another way. But they're not.

I have plenty of critical thinking skills. I was into that stuff for a long time, was an atheist for a time, and still am a skeptic when it comes to flakey alternative medicine etc.

Not that I'm likening myself to them, but some of the brightest people in this world have a religion.

You say you’re ‘a former leftie’, so I assume especially with the fundamentalist beliefs that you’re right wing now. What’s Christian about right wing politics? Anyone with half a brain surely can see that they harm the majority of people and only benefit the rich, who Jesus famously wasn’t a great fan of?

@Brawcolli Christianity has some ideas which are left wing and some that lefties now consider right wing. It's not party political or falling entirely on one side or the other.

Sounds like all healthcare should be banned then. Must be God's will to have life-threatening illnesses, mobility limiting conditions, septic wounds, broken bones (splinting allowed as long as it's with naturalwood and bandage made from a single type of fibre)

@Anniegetyourgun @whatsitcalledwhen No, because He wants us to be alive when He has given us life. So most forms of medicine He is a fan of.

From what I understand in the fundie lifestyle the sole purpose of marriage/sex is for the procreation of children. You say that you've never been blessed with children - presuming due to health reasons here - and I'm guessing that you would see that as being God's plan for you but how do you reconcile that inside yourself since you've been prevented from fulfilling one of the sole purposes that women exist?

@Uricon2 It obviously wasn't His plan for me personally or it would've happened. Some women do have other callings, whatever they are. Both sexes' primary purpose is to serve God.

What completely put me off the (according to fundamentalists) Biblical God (and I attended a Reformed Baptist Church, because Baptists, were not strict enough) was predestination.

@ChristmasFluff That's similar to Calvinism and I don't think most Christians (or at least plenty) agree with that. A lot of denominations are Arminian i.e. they think God died for everyone and anyone can be saved if they choose Jesus.

M Scott Peck is New Age waffle.

Do you think that there is something about having rejected the beliefs that you say you followed in the past that makes you drawn towards the doctrinaire, authoritarian and infallible now?

@Uricon2 I don't think so. It'd be easier to not follow a path that requires things of us that are difficult. I could just've stopped being an occultist but carried on being bisexual or whatever.

Wait are you actually being serious? I didn’t think anyone actually thought BS had any good points! Wild!

@Brawcolli I (of course) agree with most things he comes out with, except that he's not a Christian yet. But I stopped following all the Daily Wire crew for a bit because content mocking people etc was giving me an uncharitable heart.

I don't think he did. Except insomuch as he wandered around a lot and probably didn't focus on personal grooming, so mightn'tve had chance to cut it all that often. But at Gethsemane they didn't say 'arrest him over there! The long haired one!' So he looked like the other guys in terms of his hair and skin tone.

There are some depictions of Jesus from his time that show him with shorter, curly hair.

God is omnipotent and created the earth and universe but chose to create a version that has earthquakes and tsunamis that cause untold suffering. God created humanity but chose to create a species that gets cancer etc. The free will argument doesn't work for this like it does for actively created evil.

The illness etc is a result of the Fall (though I suppose that was God's choice too.) I watched something where someone was talking about The Problem of Evil, natural disasters etc. They said that we're lucky God doesn't strike us all down anyway, as we all deserve it. We all survive through His grace.

Other people have referenced slavery being okay in the bible. You've noted that the coming of Jesus relieved Christian's of the need to keep Jewish laws (but not Jews?)

Jews, too. Hence the disciples wouldn't still have followed all the Jewish rituals in the temple etc. They would maybe have done some of the things still to try and subtly advance Christianity.

but haven't noted where the Bible changes it's mind about slavery. Does it? I'd be interested to know where.

The views on slavery and how to treat slaves are softened in the NT. I do think it's a cultural thing that it was approved of in the NT at all. Then when people were working towards slavery being abolished in the West, it was often Christians who were part of trying to abolish it.

The views on slavery and how to treat slaves are softened in the NT. I do think it's a cultural thing that it was approved of in the NT at all. Then when people were working towards slavery being abolished in the West, it was often Christians who were part of trying to abolish it.

But if the Bible is literally how people are meant to behave, then surely those Christians were being bad Christians as they aren’t following what God said 2000 years ago?

Or if they were right to work against slavery (which they were), how can you pick and choose which other bits God wants you to stick with and which bits have become outdated as society and culture has progressed?

It’s always male dominance, anti-homosexuality and anti-abortion that seems to survive. Weird that.

Yeah, you can't advocate for biblical literalism based on certain English translations of the bible (in taking about hair, sexuality, etc claiming that what is written in those translations is God's word unchanged) and then criticise others you disagree with for not using the context around the biblical texts in their interpretation. That is totally inconsistent. You need to interpret the NT through the lens of first century Jewish society under Roman occupation and the times in which these books were written and the selection of texts for the bible through the lens of the 4th century early church and the society it was in.

Of course inconsistency regarding biblical interpretation is exactly what I would expect from evangelical fundamentalism so I suppose it is consistent in one way. Fooling yourself into thinking that you are somehow not interpreting the bible through a modern, largely right wing socially conservative lens but connecting directly with God is one of the major flaws of most fundamentalist Christian denomination in the western world. It is utterly arrogant as well.

There are things the Bible implies we should and shouldn't do, which I personally wish were another way. But they're not.

Oh FFS take ownership of your decisions for once in your life.

💯

@porridgeisbae see that’s what I mean. If you agree with literally any of Shapiros’ opinions, you must be quite a hateful person. I’m 100% sure Jesus wouldn’t have stood for the wee arsehole!

@porridgeisbae , thanks for your replies, but I honestly don't think that you understand what historical/cultural context means when it comes to the Bible. I do think that you've fairly recently come out of something that is TBH fairly out there in terms of most peoples beliefs (theistic Satanism) and you are looking for cast iron certainties to give you a framework that you can espouse without having to do much questioning.

On a level I can understand that but would advise this on your search; if your discernment tells you that something seems cruel, or petty, or unloving, or contradictory in the context of the 21st century, it is probably because it is. I've seen people go from denomination to denomination in search of a perfection that really doesn't exist, when reading the teachings of Christ and looking to their own morality and commonsense would have served them far better.

If I understand correctly, the religion you practice takes their interpretation of the bible completely literally, at face value? But aren't the writings in the bible supposed to be allegory? You know better than me I'm sure, but didn't Jesus himself say this?

Can I ask, what put you off occultism? And what makes you know you have chosen the correct path this time?

I find this subject fascinating, sorry for all the Q's.

Sorry, to add, I feel that when we get too attached to our beliefs, it obscures our relationship with God

I was listening to a podcast by Bart Ehrman a while ago in which he said something to the effect of fundamentalists idolise the Bible.

I have questions.

1. If God had a name, what would it be?
2. And would you call it to his face?
3. If you were faced with him in all his glory?
4. What would you ask if you had just one question?
5. And yeah, yeah; God is great. And yeah, yeah; God is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah - but what if God was one of us?
6. Just a slob like one of us?
7. Just a stranger on the bus, trying to make his way home?
8. Back up to heaven all alone?
9. Nobody calling on the phone?
10. Except for the Pope, maybe, in Rome?

I'm not really sure what you're on about but I do know some Greek and also have texts to check and follow what the words mean in the NT, plus watch stuff online where they go through it.

I'm not arguing for biblical literalism based on certain translations of the bible. Decent academic translations agree on the sense of the Bible in most instances. I also own several bibles I use of course.

I think it's clear where Jesus is using a parable to teach, and then he often explains what he means to His disciples.

I went off occultism because that is supposed to give results in terms of at least a spiritual sense that a working has achieved something. I wasn't getting those results despite doing more and more extreme workings. There could be reasons for that though. Also it can make you feel kind of alienated from the rest of the world. At least with the more hardcore stuff (but I don't mean animal sacrifice or anything like that) if people knew what you were saying in a ritual they'd be unnerved.

@porridgeisbae what will happen if you don't start getting results from your venture into Christianity though? There are no pay offs as such. You develop a closer relationship with God through prayer, but Christians aren't promised an easy life - on the contrary in fact - and to expect tangible results merely reduces God to nothing more than a pocket magician.