AIBU about my 9 year old's clothes

[PTAProblems]

DD aged 9 has always been very faddy with clothes - all sparkly, then all green, then all black, etc. We've always gone with this because we could always find a suitable outfit within her fad for wherever we were going. Playing out, nice meal, day out, etc. Her latest fad is football kits with zip up jackets. She wears these whenever she isn't in school, fine as she is comfortable. The problem is if we are going somewhere nice (a restaurant for example) where it's not suitable for her to wear this. For reference, I have a son and wouldn't let him wear a football kit a sports jacket to a restaurant either so it's not a matter of me wanting her to wear a pretty dress because she's a girl. I've been looking for clothes for her today as she's grown recently and none of her clothes fit her. I wanted to buy her a set with leggings and an oversized shirt so it's still comfortable but looks a bit smarter for the times she'd need this. She is saying she will refuse to wear it and only wants football kits. We are going for a family meal for a big birthday next week and a football kit won't be suitable. I don't want to force her to wear clothes she is uncomfortable in, however I am not happy taking her to a lovely restaurant in a football kit. Does anyone have any experience of this with their own kids and any advice on how best to handle this without squashing her style?

The only person here making it about her sex is you. If a man tells his girlfriend (and vice versa) that a football kit isn’t appropriate clothing for a smart restaurant then he is correct! Loads of women come to S&B for advice on what to wear in specific situations.

OP, you sound like a very sensible parent!
I hope you and your daughter can find a solution that works for both of you.

I think I’m personally triggered by this thread after a teenage second cousin wore a hoodie with the poop emoji, a mini kilt and bright pink fishnets to my nan’s funeral and wake. She was neurotypical and 15. Oh and the hoodie was purple, not the only black thing she had.

no my nan wouldn’t have found it funny

so so many parents don’t want to teach basic social convention to their kids. And it starts with having a conversation about being smart for a family dinner at 8 or 9. Because it’s more difficult to broach it with an older teen.

OP is suggesting a baggy shirt and leggings for her DC. Not putting her a purity ball white gown.

You’re drastically missing the point though. It’s not about would you say the same to a boy, it’s about the way girls are treated in society and expected to conform, please others, obey, boys don’t have the same expectations so the same conversation would have very different connotations and long term results.

But that woman with a controlling boyfriend was a kid once too, and probably one who was told to wear a pretty dress to make someone else smile.

A meal out is not a wedding, funeral or school. It’s also not a swimming pool for instance, where specific clothing is required. . A zip up footy top is not inappropriate, unsafe or offensive. There isn’t a formal requirement or a uniform for socialising. But there is an unspoken social contract that girls are for looking at and should appear a certain way for the pleasure of others and you’re reinforcing it at such a young age. It is harmful!

But this isn't about her being expected to conform "because she's a girl".

She's being expected to conform because of the situation she's going to be in.

I get what you're saying but you're hugely over-reaching.

You sound confused

I've got a football obsessed 11 year old. Fortunately we don't go anywhere smart!

Sounds like your DD may be getting some pleasant sensory feedback from the fabrics/tight fit.

You could try something with plain skins underneath.

Or a dress in "scuba" fabric (Next had some last year).

I didn’t say that it’s that she needs to conform because she’s a girl. I said the issue matters because she is a girl.

She shouldn’t be expected to conform to please someone else. Kids have enough pressure to conform. This thread in the same breath says that she shouldn’t be an “identi-kit” teen but then should wear what everyone else is wearing to this event. It’s a massive contradiction.
Why should she change her appearance? Because of external expectations. Why not let her express herself?

And let’s face it once you start telling a pre-teen girl what she can and can’t wear she will end up finding other (worse) ways to rebel in years to come.
The OP needs to have a think about her priorities.

@Thementalloadisreal maybe I have missed the point - or I just don't quite get it.
From my experience though the only restrictions/expectations/rules about what clothes I have (as a female) been required to follow is school/work uniforms and wearing something "smart" for certain occasions (Interviews, Jury Service, Weddings etc).
Those same "rules" would apply if I was male 🤷

Not the same at all, congrats on massively missing the point. It’s not about the football kit 🤦🏻‍♀️😂 god I worry sometimes I really do.

Everyone has to conform sometimes. It's part of life.

It's not about "telling her what she can and can't wear" - it's about helping her understand that certain situations require you to dress in a certain way.

She couldn't wear her football kit to school, or to a wedding, or to a funeral. And as an adult, you can't just dress however you want all the time either - most workplaces have dress codes, as do many restaurants, night clubs, theatres etc.

Yes but in those examples you’re not being told as a female that you have to dress a certain way for someone else. You are right in your examples but most clothing protocol is due to necessity, practicality, safety, professionalism .

This issue is about social expectations.
School don’t impose uniforms to make granny happy.
But this girl is going to a family meal and being told she can’t wear a certain item of clothing because of what people will think. Surely we as mothers should be teaching our girls more bodily autonomy and less “look pretty even if you’re uncomfortable”.

I don't think a 9 year old needs to understand the social niceties of dressing up. Unless it's an establishment that actually wouldn't let you in then let her wear what she wants.

She's got plenty of years ahead of her of having to dress for the expectations of others. She doesn't need to start now.

There was a post recently with commenters agreeing that an all-black dress code for a wedding was ridiculous and advising the OP to wear blue etc. Adults don’t conform unless strictly necessary!

What would happen if a night club said women can only wear dresses? That policy wouldn’t last five minutes - there would be outrage! Because it’s bloody stupid.

Funerals and weddings are not comparable and neither is school.

It’s not about what she is wearing it’s about why - the girl is being conditioned to dress for someone else’s gaze / judgement. It’s implied that her family won’t be happy with her based on nothing but her appearance.

It’s implied that her family won’t be happy with her based on nothing but her appearance.

And, controversially I'm sure, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, depending on the circumstances.

@Thementalloadisreal but the OP said the same "what will people think" would apply to her son too?
So....I seriously don't "get" your point.

The point is that boys aren’t brought up with the implication that their appearance matters more than their happiness.

I can’t keep explaining it. I’m sorry if it’s not obvious to some.
But the OP is essentially saying to her 9 year old that her mother’s/ family’s happiness with her appearance is more important than her own happiness with her appearance.
In this day and age, surely we know better than to teach girls that.

Not the point at all, but I’m jealous you can consistently get your DD to wear clothes, op! I have had to instigate a rule that, basically, bottoms and bosoms are covered. Otherwise my DD would happily go naked most of the time! (She is not neurotypical, mind)

@Thementalloadisreal but boys are told the same "rules".
They have to wear school/work uniforms too.
They have expectations of what to wear for formal occasions (suits for weddings etc).
My nephew was required to wear a formal shirt and tie from the age of about 8 when he went to his sport events. He didn't wear a shirt or tie as his school uniform so it was unusual and not that comfy for him to wear. But it was the rules. Didn't wear it - couldn't attend the events.
So for him his appearance did matter over his comfort.

For a non-UK reader, what is a footie kit? I'm guessing something you would wear to play football (soccer)in? Shorts and a team jersey with logos?

I wouldn't consider that appropriate for a family outing at a restaurant. While children can express their personalities with their clothing choices, there is also a social protocol that we all must conform to in some degree. Take her shopping for a nicer but still comfortable outfit.

Except it literally is about the appropriateness of the football kit for the situation. OP has said she lets her wear whatever she wants within the needs of the situation. Football kits are not appropriate for anyone in this situation. You mentioned night club dress codes. Plenty of night clubs don’t allow jeans or trainers. Same thing, it’s not appropriate for the situation. I really hope you’re not teaching your daughter that she can wear whatever she wants whenever she wants because it’ll be a harsh wake up call when she finds out that’s not true.

I can't see how a baggy shirt and leggings is smarter than a football kit, tbh, unless it's a particularly nice shirt.
I'd explain that a certain level of smartness is required on some occasions, and dinner in a posh restaurant is one of them. Tell she could wear eg stretchy trousers, or a jumpsuit, or a dress if she'd prefer, but not a football kit. Explain you and her dad are wearing smart clothes, and she needs to dress appropriately. Take her to H&M or somewhere and help her choose something comfortable.

This.

OP, you say "DH cares. I care". Care about what? What do you think will happen if she wears these clothes? Are you worried how this will reflect on you? Do you think you won't be served?

If the restaurant allows football shirts, I’d just let her wear her usual clothes.

If not, I’d help her choose something suitable