Accused of manipulation/emotional blackmail with friends

[Housebuyingfamily]

DP and i are part of a large old friendship group, a few couples have kids of a similar age. People have become scattered round the country and we’ve learnt some families in a different region meet up regularly including weekends away.

We still do social things as a bigger group like festivals but now essentially there are these "family friendship units" within the group. Although we’re not local we can travel anywhere so it frustrates me they don’t seem to want that “family friendship” level and it makes me sad for our kids.

Our eldest is just starting school and we aren’t yet at the stage of sharing holidays with other families, we don’t have family around and overall feel she is starting to miss out on experiences with family-type friends, especially with kids of similar age.

I decided i had to be more proactive with these other couples, so set up a WhatsApp group and sent some trip ideas. There was some interest and chatter but after a few days the group went silent. Eventually I guess i kind of snapped a bit and wrote something like:

"guys, I created this group to share more experiences with family friends especially with kids of a similar same age. i sort of feel stuck in our friendship patterns from 10 years ago! we’re not yet at shared holiday stage with the school parents down here and feel like DD is starting to miss out."

Now DP has told me that this amounts to manipulation or emotional blackmail! But I just wanted to be really brutally honest as an old friend, as it’s starting to really get me down. AIBU?

You set up a WAPp group and bam you expect a holiday / experience to emerge just like that. Because you want it to. BAM!

That's not how it's done.

I think it's you who's stuck in friendship patterns from your pre children days.

Too much drama, too demanding and pushy! That’s what I would think if I got that message but I suspect I’m quite a bit older than you, certainly a decade ahead in terms of having children, and I don’t have time or energy for any else’s dramas apart from my immediate family’s now.

These other families that are doing weekends away etc, do they live closer together? Because I suspect that if they do, there's a lot more day to day socialising, spontaneous discussion of a trip away etc.

Unfortunately, you can't force people to be friends with you or want to do things with you. And that message won't have helped. A better option would have been to say something like,

"Right guys, I really want to do this. - it will be so lovely to spend some time together as a big group. Shall we commit to xx weekend and yy venue? I can book it this week?"

I have friends with kids that I love doing days out, trips, and holidays with. I have others that I don't. The families we go away with are all ones where I'm really close to them AND our kids are also really close AND we know we all gel really well in any situation.

I suspect there's some reason the others don't want to go with you, and it's not necessarily a big issue or anything that's your 'fault'.

I'm someone who has done multiple holidays with other families, but we don't just holiday with anyone who we happen to be friends with. The major factors that have to be in play for a families group holiday to work are, in addition to the parents being friends:

• All the children know each other, socialise with each other regularly and have strong friendships in their own right.
• All the children are of a similar age and would enjoy the same activities
• All of the parents have similar outlook and parenting style and the ability to be flexible (e.g not one family expecting silence after 7pm because their child needs to stick to a routine and every one else just needs to suck it up).
• None of the parents expect the other children to exist to entertain or, even worse, babysit their child (a big reason for no large age gaps). Parents all understand that no-one is responsible for their child's entertainment other than them, and the other children have the right to do their own thing if they wish.

You might find like minded people to go on group holidays with, you might not. But simply being friends with the adults is not enough to entitle you to join in their holidays.

Yes, this. It's entirely possible that you haven't been included as it doesn't work for them with you for whatever reason. I have a good friend who came back a few years ago from a week away with a family her and her DH consider some of their oldest and dearest friends and she said she would never do that again! They are good friends but it turned out their parenting and expectations of their children were just so different that over a week it was an absolute nightmare.

Other reasons could be finances - DH and I would never go away with some of his friends because they are all loaded and would be wanting to stay in fancy chateaus, eat in fancy restaurants and drink expensive wine the whole time.

I'd also be hesitant to go away with families who don't live locally to me as it would be hard to predict if the children would cope with each other over the longer term.

@Housebuyingfamily as hard as it, they don't want to spend time with your family. Look into yourself and think about why that is. It may be something simple such as not enough in common now as opposed to historically. However it may also be they find you, your husband or your DD hard work .....

My DC have never had a holiday with other families. Have I ruined their lives forever? It is really not a necessary part of life. You need to get a grip. People don't have to do what you want to do.

Maybe that's because they live nearer to each other and it's easier to meet up? Or maybe they just like each other more than they like you? Honestly, your whatsapp message was so pushy, it's likely to have the opposite effect and make people not want to spend more time with you!

No I don't think it's manipulation or emotional blackmail. Those are more subtle. Isn't this just sort of throwing a tantrum because people don't want to hang out with you?

I'm not trying to be mean but I'm just confused at what the point is? A very important lesson for even little children to learn is that you can't force people to want to be your good friends or play with you in the way you want.

Most people I know don't holiday with other families. Those that do, either holidayed with those couples before they became families, or are doing a shared interest on that holiday.

I think also sometimes holidays with other families look much nicer from outside than they actually are. What do you want from a holiday? Well, most people want to relax. That's great if you all want the same, bit not so good when family A gets up at 6am noisily, but expects silence at 9pm, family B wants a lazy morning, but likes to go for a long walk in the afternoon, then spend the evening in the pub, family C hates long walks and expected they'd all spend the afternoons playing games in the garden, and wants to do a BBQ in the evenings. Family D doesn't care as long as they're not expected to cook, wash up, clean, shop and resents any suggestion they do any of it "because we're on holiday". By day 2 family A's children have fallen out with family C's children and can't even be in the same room without accusations of "he looked at me funny". No one realised that family B's children only eat chicken nuggets and so any restaurant has to be checked that they serve that. And family E announce that the adults going out for the day and no one minds looking after the children, do they.
On the day they all go down to the beach, family C decides it's nicer to have lunch in a cafe rather than the lunch family A packed, and all the other families except family A decamp (leaving all their stuff on the beach) for the entire afternoon, leaving family A with all the stuff.

Have your own holiday!

From childhood experiences it's a really enriching and lovely part of life, but I agree OP can't force others to hang out with her family if they don't want to.

She could've gone a more inviting route, and even if that didn't work, don't send a snappy message because that's just going to turn people off (unless they genuinely really care about her but it doesn't sound like it).

It would make sense to me that couples closer geographically would have their own little smaller groups. It's easier to organise stuff in smaller more local groups.

Agree with this suggestion. One couple, one specific plan, then open it up to others.

i don’t really understand the premise of your OP. There is no “shared holiday phase”. These things can happen organically, but I’ve had some hols away with friends and they’re not always stress free. Holidays with just the core family unit are the norm. I would stop hankering after something that isn’t a thing.

Your DP is right. Your message sounds like you're trying to make them feel guilty for doing something wrong against your daughter. But they aren't responsible for providing experiences for your children. That is your job. You are trying to transfer your feelings/failures onto them. It is natural for people who live in proximity to socialise more. They can be more spontaneous. Things take less planning.

If someone wrote that in a group chat I’d leave! 100% honestly you do sound like hard work
it’s all about how you say things and in this case it was wrong

I'm not sure this is a very common thing. I think you have to have an incredibly close relationship with a family to consider going away with another family.
I don't think your child is missing out at all; I don't think what you think is normal and missing out actually is normal.
You seem a bit bitter that some of them are doing things without you. Really I think your post is more about how you feel about this and nothing to do with your daughter.

What was the response, OP?

Your friends, obviously, don’t owe you holidays together, but equally, you’re good friends so getting together isn’t an outrageous thing to suggest. And if you aren’t clear, they may never think about including you. Parents with young kids often don’t have the bandwidth to do quite as much thinking about and accommodating everyone else, so fall into things that work and don’t rock the boat for fear it will capsize.

I can see circumstances where your message would be a good way to make me realise I’d got into a rut thinking about you in a different way to other friends with kids, and circumstances where it would just piss me off as emotional blackmail. Generally, though, I would think individual conversations with the ones you’re closest to would be better than a group chat and what could be seen as a bit of a challenge. Was there a reason you didn’t go that route?

It seems way too deep and demanding, accusatory. 'I set up this group for this reason and now I need to tell you all I blame you for the fact my child is losing out'..I think it might be better to accept that friendships change, don't fall out with them fully, but find others nearby. It would be much more convenient for you and your kid.

For whatever reason they have excluded you, you have now just confirmed that they are right. I think it was very bossy or demanding telling others what to do. It would irritate me being spoken to like that.

And what happens when the kids fall out. So do the parents. Wouldn't bother