Was it unreasonable to take the table

[user17382]

Out with Dm today and my young DC's. There is a particular cafe that we really like and hadn't visited for a while. Went in and there were not tables so we said we would do some more shopping and then come back to see if any were free. Went back about 30 mins later and we see a table of 4. So we went straight to it and sat down/took coats off etc and went up to order.

At this point we realised a couple at the counter were complaining about us to the waitress. Apparently they had been about to sit at our table and as it was the last one available in there they now had nowhere to sit. Staff were very good and moved things around to get them some chairs but they spent the whole time in there tutting and giving us dirty looks.

My logic is that when going in to somewhere busy we always find a table first and then order. If we waited in line with the kids and then went to find a table and couldn't get one we would be stuck as the kids are too young to take the food or drink as takeout. But then I did feel really uncomfortable and that maybe we did something wrong.

And how are you meant to know whether they’re sitting with other people or ordering a take away? Get your table first, THEN order food. I don’t step into a place and look around to see who may potentially want to use a table. First come (to the table), first serve

Except the social norm is for everyone to do it other way so the vast majority of the time people will have a table to eat their food at because they've already got it in advance, and if there are no tables when they go in they normally just leave, get stuff to take away or look around for people who look like they're leaving and ask them politely if they're finishing up.

Also your example doesn't really add up because in places where people queue at the till to get their food then the food tends to be given out to customers very quickly, so the first set of people wouldn't be likely to have finished their food at all by the time the 11th set sit down to eat. They would be all part of the same 'service' if you like because everyone is being served in a short window of time.

Nope. Here in London if you see a table you grab it then order - especially if you are in a party. The others sit down while you order.

What if they just popped to the loo while they were waiting for their food? 😮

Unless there's an explicit rule made clear by the cafe, then of course you can go in and sit at a free table.

Anything else is assuming that every random member of the public is on the same page in their heads - which is never going to work - and there is no point getting upset about other people not thinking the same way as you.

If the cafe doesn't tell you what to do then it's basically a free for all, so just get a table when you go in.

(But really, my view is that busy cafes should try to manage it proactively by seating people when they come in!)

Always always always table first. Imagine going to the buffet on holiday and getting food first. No. You always get a table and leave drinks and cutlery and sometimes coats if it's suitable and then go get your food. They sound entitled honestly. Yeah I'd be annoyed if I did something that dumb too.

It makes no sense to order and then find a table. This was a couple, one should have sat at the table whilst the other went up and ordered.
if I’m on my own I reserve the table by putting my coat there or something or I think “too busy” and go somewhere else.

The only cafe I've been to recently has little reserved cards for lone diners "this table is in use, I'm just placing my order" - they obviously expect you to yet a table first!

This. People who are drinking or eating alone will always miss out here. They can't bag a table AND join the queue.

No. That’s not logical. The reason the tables run out is because there are more people wanting tables than there are tables available! Surely you can see that?

The only difference is the manner in which this fact becomes apparent and the different outcomes to which it leads:

• if everyone queues then looks blandly around for a table, they will find out this fact whilst standing there with a tray of food like a muppet.
• if everyone bags a table first, they will find out this fact prior to purchasing food - and can decide to go elsewhere or just get takeout.

It’s bizarre that people can’t see this.

YANBU

I’m really shocked at the amount of people saying “ food first , then table” - that’s just not the way it is in any cafe I have ever known . I would never order food on the off chance a table would be free anyway , but you go in , sit down, look at the menu and then go up and order .

The couple were a bit silly to not have one of them sit at the table , or at least pop a coat on it - especially as it’s the only one left!

I would have done EXACTLY the same as you OP and I wouldn’t feel bad about it either.

@user17382 Most places its order first then table, but I get why you did what you did. If they hadn't been able to seat the couple, you've had to clear out, so lucky you.

But was there no sign up? If not you did nothing wrong.

Owners need to be clear about this cos it can cause strife.

Exactly! And even the ones that don’t have table numbers usually ask where you’re sitting. Imagine saying “Nowhere - I just queued up to order food on the random chance they’ll be a table free when it’s ready” 🙄

They’ll = there’ll

@stichguru If the queue is quite long, I'm getting a drink and cake and the menu is mostly things people will get from a counter and eat fairly quickly (e.g. Costa style), food first. If everyone works like this, the tables will clear as the queue moves through and I will get to sit down at a table that another dinner has finished with, by the time I have my food. If by any chance not, then I get my food as take out

No no no! I’m sorry to keep going on about it, but it bothers me so much when people don’t employ logic and affect to live in some sort of fake version of reality! The tables won’t necessarily clear as the queue moves through!! Why would they? It takes (on average) much longer (even allowing for the glacial pace of the Costa baristas!) to eat your food/drink your coffee than it does for each individual party to move through the queue. So the tables will run out if it’s busy.

And you can’t suddenly decide you want take out when you’re standing there with a cup of saucer 😂Well, you can, I guess but no one does this because they’d have to pour your rapidly cooling coffee from one of those giant ceramic cups into a take out cup and they just never do that.

This is why I think the ‘food first’ contingent don’t actually do this and are just making stuff up. Either that, or they’re getting confused with a school cafeteria.

i dont you did anything wrong

Well done. So when I had a 9 month old in a baby carrier and my handbag, was seen to a table, then went up to order only to have my table taken by a couple who wandered in, I should have left the 9 month old there... Or my handbag... Got it.

I have kids under ten, there's no way with three of them I could stand in the line and then get a table, even if the other parent is there. Kids itch to settle. We have to get them at a table settled and then look at a menu. It flusters us all if we wait in line first and then not get a table at the end. But similarly when I'm on my own I won't go into a busy place of it looks like I likely won't get a table and I want a table. We all make choices. There's no sign saying you're not allowed to sit at a table before you order, you're ok x

But multiple people have said how they do reserve tables on their own, with coats etc.

Also, if in my own, I may not worry too much about risking a wait for a table once I've got my food, as I'm capable of holding it for a bit, and with only one of me I'm likely to find a space I can slot into quickly.

If I'm in a group of 3 or more, I have more need to know there is definitely a table, as one big enough is less likely to become free quickly. And if that group includes children who may not be able to hold their food / drinks standing up without spilling, and are more likely to get under people's feet and be a health and safety hazard, I definitely wouldn't risk it. Same if I had somebody elderly / disabled with me. Indeed, as cafe staff or someone eating there, I wouldn't want groups of people standing around waiting for tables / all standing together to queue. There is rarely room.

I have a couple of questions.

You were ‘seen to a table’? So it was definitely your table in the eyes of the cafe management? So why couldn’t they defend it for a mother and her baby and simply ask the couple to move?

When I had babies/toddlers, I fairly regularly went to cafes and operated on the ‘get a table first’ principle. Granted, it’s not as easy (few things are when you’re juggling small people) but I was usually able to go at relatively quiet times. Certainly, with a toddler, I’d have been even less likely to do the ‘wait and see’ approach because- well, how could I take that chance?

There was one time, actually, that I gambled on getting a table; there looked to be a few available, and, although I didn’t do the maths which some seem to be advocating (survey of tables available divided by people in queue), I thought it was safe. It was not!! We had to do the sad wander with full tray! Luckily a couple took pity on us and let us join them. But there’s absolutely no reason they should have done or guarantee that a table would open up.

I think it is acceptable to bag a table before ordering or you risk nowhere to sit.

Table then order otherwise you won’t have anywhere guaranteed to sit down. Logic

This point has been addressed numerous times already!

Some people put a jacket down, others assess the situation beforehand and, gasp, don’t go in if the tables are looking tight. It really isn’t the end of the world to take a coffee to go or even, skip coffee that day. You would think solo patrons are in a life or death situation with some posters on this thread!

More fool they for not securing a table before ordering in a busy cafe. You did nothing wrong.

How would you even manage to carry a tray with a handbag and a baby in a carrier? I think in this situation, neither method would work and I'd look for somewhere that was table service. I can't remember what I did when my twins were babies, probably never went out to be fair...