Why is Starmer Standing by Azhar Ali?

[Dogfisher]

AIBU to think that he should be out on his ear for his blatant anti-Semitism? I actually thought that Starmer was dealing with this in the LP - but this seems to suggest otherwise.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/12/labour-criticised-for-backing-rochdale-candidate-after-offensive-israel-remark

So there's a non-Jewish poster trying to overrule Jews on what should be considered antisemitic?

@Grandmasswag - I get that. But equally, the actions of the UK, its allies, long term foreign policy would all make that not a surprise to me.

Gaza really bothers me because it's the first time in my life I have seen something in the UK that is very similar to other divided societies in the world, where there are protests along religious lines, and that overwhelms national identity. It's going nowhere good if you say to people, yes, your religious identity is greater than your national identity, your obligation to neighbours and the wider community. People should think very carefully about where this will go in the end if they want a multiculturalism that has depended on non political discussion. It is absolutely foolish to imagine you can start asserting your religious identity can mean a greater leverage over a debate than anyone else. We are one society. Moral disgust at the conflict in Israel can be addressed in many ways. Politically you can address it and support peace. But putting religious identity as the why is a disaster for everyone.

You re clearly loving this embarrassment for Labour, thats very clear.

As you seem to quite like speculating that Labour knew all about this months ago and that they knew about Ali's anti-Semitic views.

Yet cannot produce any evidence for your two allegations whatsoever.

Right. So that one poster on 20 odd pages of posts is in the wrong. Agreed. You referred to it as though it was Ali who had inferred that.

Wow, there must be another poster with similar views to mine. Is that really unthinkable? Search the usernames you'll see we're not the same person.

This level of paranoia is not healthy. Nobody is out to get you. There is no agenda. Just people who don't agree with you.

@jasflowers serious question. Do you think no one in the room mentioned it until the mail got hold of it?

You re clearly loving this embarrassment for Labour, thats very clear.
As you seem to quite like speculating that Labour knew all about this months ago and that they knew about Ali's anti-Semitic views.
Yet cannot produce any evidence for your two allegations whatsoever.

Seriously? 😂

Right. So that one poster on 20 odd pages of posts is in the wrong. Agreed. You referred to it as though it was Ali who had inferred that.

Er... no I didn't. You asked who is blaming Jew [ish people] worldwide for Israel's actions and I told you who. I didn't even mention Ali.

Wow, there must be another poster with similar views to mine. Is that really unthinkable? Search the usernames you'll see we're not the same person.

Just an observation. And people can have multiple usernames and even multiple accounts. Not accusing you of anything, just saying.

Are you saying you have similar views to the poster who said that 'Jews control the media'.

Why don't you agree with what Israel is doing?

Oh for goodness sake are you being deliberately obtuse?
No, I am saying that I am not the user you previously referred to. Which I think you are fully aware of.

Do I agree with their genocide against the Palestinians
No I bloody don't. I think it's evil.

In answer to someonescatmum

I think that the ground invasion of Rafah is a step too far. Where do the Palestinians go? I fully supported Israel in going after Hamas and trying to get back their hostages but the death and destruction is too much. It is not getting Israel anywhere and is losing them worldwide support.

As ever when men fight, women and children lose their lives and this happened to the Jewish people on Oct 7 and to the Palestinians ever since Israel started their campaign.

Hamas should stop firing their rockets at Israel and hand over the hostages so that a ceasefire can be brokered but I do not think that they will do this. So it will be left to Israel to negotiate a peace of sorts but I do not know how viable this is now.

Its a huge fucking mess and my heart breaks for all of the Jews and Palestinians who have been harmed and killed.

I didn't say you were the same.

You were the one who referred to the Anti-Semetic poster as "another poster with similar views to mine".

Would you go as far as to call it genocide?

I think that is so important. Although I don't agree that they were solely after Hamas earlier on, the ground invasion is a new level of awful. I get that the actions of Hamas are abysmal but that doesn't justify harming a single innocent in my view. And there were atrocities on both sides before the incident last autumn.

I believe that some of the actions of the UK government that allegedly represent me are evil. Does that make me and my young children a legitimate target of violence by those the UK government has wronged? I feel that this is the view aimed at Palestinians.

Most of all I am disgusted with the UK government (and obviously other governments but they don't represent me) that their priority has not been to work towards a ceasefire and peaceful resolution whatever the views of opposing sides are. If there had been unified pressure from across the world to pursue a peaceful solution and put diplomatic and commercial pressure on Israel to do so many lives could have been saved and such trauma could have been stopped.

I feel that human life is of greater importance than any aspect of the conflict.

I think that is where a lot of my frustration comes from, I think there are a lot of people who just don't want to see innocents being torn to pieces, who are being told that they are antisemitic for feeling that way.

Well that's the exact opposite of what I have been posting, which makes it very odd that you think we are the same person?

Would you go as far as to call it genocide?

I don't think that's Israel's intention.

apple.news/AZh5YRLfFQsiEIzeZ_6eUOQ

Guardian opinion piece.

Guardian?

What's the exact opposite?

I never said you're the same person. You just said that you have similar views. 😕

Guardian?

Some Guardian opinions (and cartoon) here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2024/feb/13/martin-rowson-keir-starmers-difficulties-cartoon
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/13/the-guardian-view-on-labours-rochdale-mess-factionalism-is-damaging-the-party
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/13/sex-rochdale-azhar-ali-george-galloway-simon-danczuk
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/14/labour-azhar-ali-rochdale-byelection
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/13/azhar-ali-labour-handling-rochdale
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/13/azhar-ali-row-how-keir-starmer-has-handled-other-members-behaviour

But is it though?

I think it is. I'm not sure if that's an antisemitic thing to say?

@Clavinova sorry was in the i.
Apologies

I've stop counting after the third person.
So many threads, apparently half of mumsnet been to Auschwitz and yet still blissfuly ignorant.

How many times it must be said before you will try to learn something about the issue of antisemitism.

Judaism = religion, Jew = ETHNICITY.
Atheism is a mainstream position in Israel.
Judaism contrary to Islam and Christianity is not seeking converts being an ETHNO religion. In very reductive terms there are three branches of Judaism. One won't let you convert if you are not Jewish. Other two will after years of work on proving you got what it is all about and there still must be some connection to ETHNICITY - it can be a marriage but there are still complicated rules.

So, let me tell you that. Jews are victims of ethnic cleansing right now.
Murdered because ETHNICITY. Culture destroyed - ever wonder why there is only a 'wailing wall'? ever wonder what been there before Al - Aksa? There is a patter.

I love comparison to NI. A country where there is till almost 100 walls in the capital city. But you call a BORDER wall between Israel and Palestine prison.
Whatever you think about IRA, Dublin based terrorists did not fire rockets at NI every day randomly at every opportunity. something Hamas does constantly.

Also, Israel's history is more akin to history of Central and Eastern Europe but it is another subject not well known among 'Western' public.
Poland was off the map for 123 years mutilated by three Empires. I would advise not to tell Poles that they do not have a right to own country as a result of being victimised for too long - it won't go well. Own national state is a luxury for the 'Westerners'?

'Jews are victims of ethnic cleansing right now' - are you sure?

I think it is. I'm not sure if that's an antisemitic thing to say?

Someonescatmum I am not sure if you are being sarcastic here but I shall assume not.