XL Bully attack | 8 year old boy seriously injured

[ThisOldThang]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/schoolboy-8-seriously-injured-after-28610020

"A schoolboy is in a serious condition in hospital after being mauled by what is believed to be an XL bully.

Merseyside Police were called to Wadham Road in Bootle just after 5.20pm on Saturday following reports a dog had bitten an eight-year-old boy to the head in the communal area of flats nearby.

The boy was rushed to hospital with serious head injuries and required emergency surgery. He remains in hospital in a serious but stable condition."

IMHO the ban doesn't go anywhere near far enough and all XL Bullys need to be put to sleep.

AIBU?

Dear God - that is horrific!

Which means that they are effective.

My niece is deaf, so she wouldn't hear your warnings.

Is she also stupid, @ThisOldThang and wouldn't realise that my leashed and muzzled dog quivering behind me, and me putting my hand out palm forward while saying "No!" meant don't touch my dog?

Or has she just never been taught that you should always check with the owner before approaching a dog, and is just allowed to run yp to any animal she wants to inflict herself upon?

Either way, you and her parents have a responsibility to protect her.

So we have progressed as far as "what about deaf people". What is your next "what aboutery"? I am on tenterhooks.

And I agree with people who say dogs shouldn't be running loose in general. Which is why mine aren't permitted to - and nor are many others.

However, there are places where unleashed dogs are allowed, and I suggest that if you don't like dogs, you don't visit those places. Go somewhere else. There are still many places you can enjoy without meeting a dog at all, let alone an unleashed one.

@Emotionalsupportviper I agree with that, the onus is on both sides.

I speculate that for some of the people that own these types of dogs, the sort of people the dog is meant to be protecting them from are an even greater threat. In dodgy urban areas etc.

Like, nobody is going to try and mug the guy with an XL bully over the guy without one.

My dog loving niece used to land out of nowhere on my child hating old dog when she was little (once, in fact, but a constant risk). Christmas was awful. Parents and I took joint responsibility. The child had no concept at all that the dog could hurt her if she upset it/cornered it etc.. as soon as I was able to explain that if the dog injured her the it would have to die it was sorted. Harsh, for a 3 year old, definitely, but necessary in the end. She’s absolutely best mates with my (different) dog now. If we did away with all danger we would live in a world of nothing at all.

A lot of people are saying they tell their kids to ask if they can stroke dogs in parks etc.

I find that interesting- my childhood friend who grew up with 2 big dogs and now has 3 kids (and has had her own dogs in the past) tells all her kids not to pet strange dogs period. Even if the owners say “it’s ok they won’t bite” (famous last words before a bite 😬)

Her reasoning is why should they risk themselves by taking a strangers word for it that their dog won’t lash out in some way ?

Dogs can bite or lunge aggressively out the blue and even people with bitey dogs often don’t admit to it. So I totally understand her logic. In her mind it’s not worth the risk to her children.

IMO, there are any things that should that should happen in the UK regarding all dogs. From a bully breed owner. He is NOT XLB but as a responsible owner he is licensed, always walked on a lead and muzzled, he comes 1" under the measurements and I'm happy to have an open minded discussion about bully breeds. Please bear in mind when talking about the "bully breeds" this will include things like any type of bull dog french bulldog to old English bulldog.

1. License dog breeders, there are too many back yard breeders. This type of breeder only cares about money at not the temperament of the dog.
2. License ALL dog owners, my dog has been been attacked by a lot of dogs all different breeders, mainly cockerpoos and spaniels. (Could be the area I live in)

There are so many dogs with a bigger PSI bite then most bullies which are not banned under the dangerous dog act. Kenneth Baker admits in his autobiography there are dogs that should be on the list but were not as it would upset the middle class. I agree with the majority of post about people buying this type of dog as a status symbol which is an issue, i also agree with a comment about cutting the dogs ears, if you do this as a dog owner you should not be allowed near a dog ever again, this is disgusting,vile and abusive to the animal I cannot stress how much I hate this a bully breed owner, this comes from the days of dog fighting so the dogs ears couldn't be bitten by the other dog. The type of people who buy a dog as a status symbol will just by the next "mean looking/scary" dog on the list. Since the ban these type of people have just started to buy cane corso which has a much bigger PSI bite. Again IMO all that will happen is more and more breeds will get banned until we look at all dog owners. I grew up with many different dog breeds in our house over the years and there is so many factors in to owning a dog people don't consider before getting one. As for one of the post about why would you own a dog that big that needs walking miles shows that people have no Idea. If you walk a larger/heavier dog for miles it can cause issues in their hips and back later on in life. They require an hour not more of exercising a day. You can also do so much indoors to stimulate your dog, if you use a treat ball or snuffle ball and it last more than 20 minutes that is worth the equivalent of 1.5hours of walking. Not all exercise has to be walking or running for a dog. Lastly growing up up I was taught never hug a dog, never go face to face with a dog and how to read a dog's body language. I will hug my dog but if he pulls away I know that means leave me. If you think your dog is friendly but will low level growl or growl from while showing teeth or lifting one side of its face it's not friendly it's warning the other dog. I would happily have any authority come and assess my dog knowing he is trained and he has a good temperament. Most XLB dog owners won't be happy for an assessment on their dog.

Have you researched this? Or just watched on YouTube video? Not having a dog but would be interested in all facts and forms of information please share all links

Hi, can I ask what breed you own? I understand if you would rather not say consider the majority of basis on here

That one was a lovely old Labrador cross - the quintessential family dog. Medium sized, butter wouldn’t melt etc — we had to be really careful with her (so we were - no injuries ever). Current dog is 3x the weight mastiff. Soft as a brush.

So when I go through the fatalities from 2010 onwards, we have:

April 2010 - 18 month old mauled to death by an American bulldog that came in from the garden (belonged to an uncle.)

November 2012 - an 8 day old killed by two jack russell X

March 2013 - a 14 year old killed by two Staffs and two bull mastiffs when she was visiting a school friend.

November 2013 - a 4 year old was home sick from school and lying on the sofa when the family pet bulldog went for her.

February 2014 - 11 month old girl killed by a pit bull terrier

February 2014 - 6 day old girl killed by an Alaskan malamute (family pet.)

October 2014 - 6 month old girl killed by family pit bull

June 2015 - 3 week old boy killed by Lakeland terrier (family pet)

August 2016 - 3 year old boy killed while playing with friends at their home by their pet, prosecution said that he did ‘absolutely nothing to provoke the dog.’

October 2016 - 4 month old killed by Staffordshire terrier at his home

October 2017 - ten year old boy killed by German shepherd (family pet)

November 2018 - 2 month old killed by two Staffordshire terriers his family owned

April 2019 - ten year old killed by a bulldog when he and the dog were in a caravan on holiday

September 2020 - 12 day old killed by family pet chow chow

November 2021 - ten year old killed by XL Bully when visiting a friends house

March 2022 - 3 month old girl killed by family pet husky

March 2022 - 17 month old girl killed by family pet XL Bully

March 2022 - 2 year old boy killed by Rottweilers belonging to his grandmother

May 2022 - 3 year old boy killed by cane corso (family pet)

January 2023 - 4 year old killed by bulldog in her back garden by family pet

So - I’m not seeing these children causing their own deaths by charging up to dogs in the park. Many of the above are non mobile babies and pretty much all are killed in their own homes. The only exceptions are children of school age visiting friends at their homes.

So actually there have been twenty children (under the age of 18) killed by dogs since 2010.

Nine were under one year of age

Two under the age of two

Two two / three year olds

Three victims aged ten

Three four year olds

One in her teens

So even if we assume fault of some kind in the victims aged two and above (they weren’t, one four year old was lying on the sofa when she was attacked) I think we’d mostly all agree babies can’t be ‘blamed’. And they make up the majority of the victims.

... and 11 of these children were killed by bully type breeds.
5 killed by other large guard / protection breeds.

"If we did away with all danger we would live in a world of nothing at all"

Why do dog owners think they have the right to determine what the acceptable level of risk is to young children and society in general?

Your dogs should be managed so that they pose zero risk to the public.

growing up up I was taught never hug a dog, never go face to face with a dog and how to read a dog's body language. I will hug my dog but if he pulls away I know that means leave me. If you think your dog is friendly but will low level growl or growl from while showing teeth or lifting one side of its face it's not friendly it's warning the other dog. I would happily have any authority come and assess my dog knowing he is trained and he has a good temperament.

Good post - the above is especially important from a safety viewpoint.

Dogs will tell you that they are uncomfortable so that you can step back.

NEVER leave a small child alone with a dog
NEVER force your attention on a dog
NEVER disturb a dog which is eating (the only exception is if you need to take something (eg chicken bone) off a dog. Train your dog to accept this by "swapping" a treat for whatever.
NEVER suddenly jump on a dog - especially if it is asleep.
NEVER drag a dog out of its bed if it has gone there to get away from people
NEVER approach a strange dog without asking first.

These are all common sense things, but so many people seem to be unaware of them these days.

Tragic as it is, the children killed in their own homes have died because their parents/ carers left them with dogs. If you have a dog and a child in the same house, you have a responsibility to supervise them at all times. Similarly if you have a visitor (child or adult, but especially child) you don't risk them

No-one is blaming the tragic victims of these horrible attacks, but looking at that heartbreaking list, every one of those attacks was preventable.

Quite a few of them were being supervised. Not all of course. But as much as I think anyone bringing a breed known to be aggressive into the house is mad, in many cases the parents (almost always the mother) fought very hard to try to save their child but couldn’t. In the case of the four month old baby the mother had to take her other child, a toddler, and barricade them in another room.

Tragic as it is, the children killed in their own homes have died because their parents/ carers left them with dogs

No-one is blaming the tragic victims of these horrible attacks, but looking at that heartbreaking list, every one of those attacks was preventable.

@Emotionalsupportviper I agree with you that you owners/adults present do have a responsibility to supervise children and dogs - be it your own child or a visitor - but in many cases it really would only have been preventable if they didn’t have said dog.

I don’t know each of these cases inside and out but very often in dog attack incidents you’ll find there was an adult present. They didn’t “leave the child with dogs”.

The issue is many of these dogs are so bold and powerful that even a grown man will struggle to defend his own child.

I only have one friend whose (staffy mix) dog attacked their (9 year old) child and in that incident her older brother and Dad were present. It was a dog they’d had for several years as well. Luckily the Dad reacted quickly and got the dog off although she did have to receive hospital care. the kid was just colouring in minding her own business when the dog went for her as well.

I was furious they kept the dog until she attacked their child a second time and then they finally gave it away and who knows if that new owner keeps it away from people knowing it’s bite history !

In the case of the four month old baby the mother had to take her other child, a toddler, and barricade them in another room.

Thats horrific. So she basically had to leave her baby who was being mauled and protect her and her other child? What a terrible situation to be in.

The baby was already dead

Horrific is right.

Obviously I do but I’m extra careful about children and other people who may be vulnerable like cyclists. As I was responding to a post about children, I made it specific. I naively assumed I didn’t have to spell it out 🤷🏻‍♀️but of course I’ve got my dog right next to me on a short lead if people are around.

Agree with PPs re the supervision aspect of having these type of dogs in a family home. The owner might be right next to the dog but once this type of dog starts on its prey, grown men cannot get the dog off. In videos of attacks, we’ve seen people whacking the dogs with spades and sticks, throwing wheelie bins at them, rugby tackling them… it makes no difference. The XLB’s nature is such that it is extremely tenacious and just will not let go once it’s got its teeth into the victim.

I don't disagree that the things you list are common sense. Common sense when dealing with a dangerous predator that could seriously injure you or possibly kill you if you don't exercise the common sense.
But surely you lack common sense if you think it's a good idea to share your home with an animal that could kill or seriously injure you if you don't obey it /defer to it?
In many cases it's not just sharing the home, its giving the creature pride of place in the home so that it feels it can do as it pleases?
Why not just have a small harmless animal as a pet?

Ian Price held down and casually dismembered by two dogs whilst people whacked them with metal poles, all the efforts of a crowd of people made no difference whatsoever to the behavior of the dogs. He died a horrifying agonising death in front of them whilst these two dogs, these horrific abominations wagged their tails and delightedly tore him to pieces.