XL Bully attack | 8 year old boy seriously injured

[ThisOldThang]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/schoolboy-8-seriously-injured-after-28610020

"A schoolboy is in a serious condition in hospital after being mauled by what is believed to be an XL bully.

Merseyside Police were called to Wadham Road in Bootle just after 5.20pm on Saturday following reports a dog had bitten an eight-year-old boy to the head in the communal area of flats nearby.

The boy was rushed to hospital with serious head injuries and required emergency surgery. He remains in hospital in a serious but stable condition."

IMHO the ban doesn't go anywhere near far enough and all XL Bullys need to be put to sleep.

AIBU?

I give any of these types of dogs an extremely wide berth and would be happy to see them banned.

My mum is one of those people who put her dogs before her kids. A dog we had bit my sister quite badly (for no obvious reason) and our mum made her hide the injury from our dad as she knew our dad would (rightly) insist on the dog being PTS. So I have no trouble believing there are other mothers out there who are the same.

I don't think anyone with children should have an XL bully in the house. So if they're not willing to put their kids first, then maybe they need to be forced to. Instead they've been using their kids as "justification" as to why they have the dog, sad face stories about the dog being the child's only friend 🙄if that was the case why didn't they get a dog that wasn't capable of killing their child, one they could handle if the worst happened.

I'm in SH myself but 100% agree that SH landlords should ban them. I hate it to be so, but it's true a lot are in SH. Although thankfully there are none near me I've seen, but I'm not on an estate. It's not fair for other residents to be exposed to that risk.

Yes, this was 1989/90. We would often have dogs barking at us and chasing us aggressively. It was so common for dogs to be wandering the streets. I got bit a few times, less severely and used to get told "It's because they can smell your fear" However, we've always had family dogs. It wasn't dogs I was necessarily scared of, it was loose out of control dogs, that just roamed round the estates and streets. They'd just come at you when you were playing or walking along! You don't see it so much now, thankfully, but dogs do get out. I might be remembering it wrong, but I'm sure with the poor chap that got killed by a couple of XLs a few months ago, the dogs had jumped through the window.

I've only been bitten by one dog, 50 years ago. It was a GSD who had an owner who I'm quite certain would be in the market for an XL these days. I'd been taught how to behave around dogs, was just walking past but this one turned round and snapped. It wasn't a bad bite by any means but made me wary of the breed for life.

However-I see GSDs and XLs completely differently. These musclebound mutants could not do the work GS's can, for a start. Their genetic/breeding history and record is atrocious to the point where I don't see how any sensible, responsible dog lover would have one and I automatically think anyone who does is thick as 2 short planks at the very, very best. Them being around children who have no choice over the actions of their halfwit parents is IMO abusive.

I personally do not like XL bullies and don't mind the ban, but I don't think they should all indiscriminately be put to sleep. Blanket cullings like this are not ethical. Not all XL bullies are dangerous (although I agree as a breed they are more dangerous than most dog breeds). I agree with grandfathering in the ones that currently exist in UK and ensuring that they are muzzled and leashed in public, I believe they all need to be evaluated for aggression in order to get licensed, so those that have been properly licensed shouldn't be a problem.

I do not think the ban will be very effective. The people that want XL bullies for the wrong reasons will just move on to the next breed (as they did when pit bulls were banned). Unless you're going to ban every breed that has the potential to do harm (something I also do not agree with) it's not going to work.

My solution would be banning certain people from owning the dangerous breeds. The list could include those in social housing, anyone with a criminal record, and anyone who has ever had owned a dog that attacked a person in the past. It might sound discriminatory, and I've lived in a housing association myself in the past, but the truth is its usually the lower income types living in the more crime ridden areas who get these dogs to "look hard" (perhaps because they feel vulnerable and insecure where they live?). Dogs should never be used as protection imo and that's what the "wrong type" of people are using them for. Rather, police need to police these areas better and protect residents so they don't feel the need to get a dangerous dog.

Also, change the laws so that if a dog kills or mauls someone the owner is charged with manslaughter / GBH and goes to prison for it. People won't be so keen to own a dangerous dog if they are looking at a prison sentence if the dog gets out of control.

Also, change the laws so that if a dog kills or mauls someone the owner is charged with manslaughter
Why not just ban animals that are capable of dismembering and mauling humans?
We don't allow people to keep other dangerous animals as pets, no one would try to argue that someone be allowed to have a bear or a panther as a domestic pet, why should it be any different for this particular canine subspecies?

Because you'll end up banning the majority of dogs. Most dogs over 20kg are capable of killing someone, if they should choose to. It becomes hard to draw the line somewhere, if you do a blanket ban on any dog over 20kg you'll end up banning labradors and golden retrievers which are some of the safest dog breeds. If you just try to ban each breed individually it becomes a monumental task since people will just breed new breeds, or cross 2 banned breeds to make a mongrel that doesnt fit either standard to get around the bans. It won't work either way since criminals will just ignore the law (like they currently do with pit bulls) and get them anyway. It just ends up with dogs being punished for human actions. I'd much rather punish the humans - should be a lot more effective.

Most dogs over 20kg are capable of killing someone
I don't disagree, in my post I suggested banning dogs which are capable of mauling and dismembering.
Do you think that most dogs over 20 kilos are capable of mauling and dismembering @Lycanthi ?

Lots of dogs could (in theory) kill a human- if they got lucky.
It's the ones that are capable of overpowering, mauling and dismembering humans which pose a significant threat

We need to stop classifying XL Bullies as dogs. They're much more than just dogs. They are over muscled monsters THAT HAVE KILLED SO MANY PEOPLE.

We don't allow people to keep bears or tigers as pets because THEY ARE DANGEROUS and can easily kill people.

It's so absurd on dogs and the risk they present. Years ago the UK licensed owners of bengal cats F1 type given their nature and temperament as a dangerous wild animal.

Somehow the UK cannot do the same with large dogs. In the end I think socially it will be less acceptable to have one, and they will be excluded from rentals, social housing etc on the grounds of public safety.

I love dogs but totally hear this - if you don’t love dogs it must be really annoying at times. They’re not generally allowed on RSPB / other nature reserves, so that might be somewhere to look.

There’s a difference between a dog that simply bites once and a dog ie an XL bully that multiple bites, hanging on and mauling.

“It is common knowledge, and has been for some while, that American XL Bullies have an unpredictable streak in their temperament, that shows itself from time to time when they attack people without warning. '' So said the judge in this case. Can't believe she got so little time tbh.

There are lots of reports in SE London. Lots of daft people who don't muzzle in public

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/24115793.burn-roads-latchmere-recreation-ground-kingston-xl-bully-attack/

Pups of Cane Corsos are still being sold on Gumtree in my area. They should ban the adverts. If there's no sale they won't breed them. Also dogs being advertised as XL Bullies but 'small ones'. Any of these dogs not getting regular exercise out of the home will be sent mad by the inactivity. I don't know what the answer is, mass slaughter will not do any good we are dealing with people who will find another way to express their vile characters.

So they’re escalating to a form of domestic terrorism. Quelle surprise.

We don't leave the house without a muzzle.

But not because she is "unstable" - she isn't. She is anxious and wears a muzzle, a yellow dog "I need space" coat, and a yellow dog "I need space" leash. Anyone who is too stupid to ignore those signals deserves to be taken out of the gene pool, frankly.

However, the reason she wears a muzzle is because given a chance she eats sh1t.

. I didn’t want to start walking up and down the train with an unsupervised dog in search of of the owner. It’s just not my job. It’s not really fair customers having to confront other passengers especially as some people can be very aggressive and hostile.

Thank you for your courteous response - and I agree with almost all you have said (particularly the piece above - it's NOT your responsibility).

The only piece I would contend is that you think that there are a lot of aggressive dogs (in general - not just these current monsters). My experience has been the opposite -and we can only speak as we find.

Multiple bites and dog chases is just crazy!
I was more of a 90s kid so I think the trend for roaming aggressive dogs was dying down slightly but I’d still be on edge around unsupervised dogs while out playing . Most of the dogs out by themselves in my street were fairly mild mannered mongrels, who left you alone but the neighbouring street had some more aggressive dogs that would occasionally be out themselves like the Staffy that approached me.

A couple of my immediate neighbours had GSD, dobermans and staffy types but thankfully they weren’t allowed out unleashed or by themselves.

I’m definitely glad XL bullies weren’t a thing back in the 80/90s.

there was a litter of puppies in the house which she was poking with a broom handle to get a reaction from the mum.

@Livelovebehappy that's totally incorrect and an appalling aspersion to cast on the poor dead woman. She had already expressed her concern to other members of the family about the dogs but obviously wanted to see her grandson. She was instructed to use a broom to seperate the puppies if they were fighting. She did as she was told and was attacked. There is absolutely NO reason to say she was "poking" them to get a "reaction".

You should apologise on this thread to the family and anyone who knew her.

But surely only dog owners (and certainly not all of them) would know that a yellow coat/leash means not to approach the dog, or that it indicates to other that the dog has an anxious disposition?

If I saw a dog in a yellow coat I would just assume the owner liked the colour yellow 🤷‍♀️

@redboots765 no idea where you get your info from, but the police specifically thanked the neighbours who tried to rescue the poor grandma. They used spades to try to get the dogs off.

Yes many dogs over 20kg are capable. Most breeds do not have the temperament to do this, but there has even been instances of medium sized dogs like border collies killing people, and huskies have killed lots of children and babies, so yes, if the dog is determined enough it can happen. Even labs and golden retrievers have maimed and killed people so even the "safer" breeds can flip and "go bad" (its rare but its possible).

If 20kg is too small, then up the limit to 25kg or 30kg. But basically dogs over a certain size have the weight and bite force to do enough damage to kill. Pit bulls are on average 25kg yet they can do immense damage, and staffordshire bull terriers are only around 15 -20kg and they can also severely maul people (I've seen it myself).

The point is you need to draw a line somewhere. Where will that line be? As has already been stated if you ban breed 1, people who use the dogs as status symbols or protection just move onto breed 2. It's a never ending cycle until you've gone through all the large potentially dangerous breeds 1 by 1.

Rather than wasting time doing this, ban those people from owning any large dogs at all (put the weight limit wherever its deemed to prevent the most maulings), and that is more effective since they can't just move onto another potentially dangerous breed and stay within the law.

I guarantee you that this XL bully ban will not prevent more deaths or maulings in the future. It will just be a different breed causing it.

XL bullies still being (13 Feb) advertised - despite it being illegal - for sale: 'XL bullies for sale', Facebook.