To think there’s no excuse for using this words?

[Sunshineonthebalconyplease]

Have name changed for this because have posted elsewhere and spoken to friends and don’t want it linked to my previous posts :)

I’m part of a small group of about 5 mum friends. All kids have SEN that severely impact their everyday lives.

I’ve distanced myself from the group over the past few weeks for a number of reasons, partly because it centres around one mum in particular who has just been really off with me since I got my new job (quite senior in the SEN world) but mostly because I’ve noticed her over the past few weeks using the words ‘spastic’ and ‘retard’ casually. Like saying her daughter “went absolutely spastic” to mean having a meltdown, joking that she looks like a “fat Chinese spastic”. In a recent discussion about how parents often aren’t believed because their kids “look NT” when regulated, she commented that my sons disabilities were very obvious due to his facial features and the way he walks.

Last night she posted something on FB, sharing a meme with the word ‘retard’ in it.

I can’t be around her anymore. I think it’s disgusting. I don’t want to ‘call her out’ on it because it will make things uncomfortable for me and my son when we attend SEN groups they are likely to be at. But I did have a quiet word with two of the other friends in the group to explain that I’ll be pulling back and why, and that it isn’t personal to them and I’ll still be there to support them.

One friend (who works with people with severe learning difficulties) said she was sad I felt that way but completely respected my decision and said we will still see each other. The other one seemed really gutted but kept making excuses, saying the original friend would be gutted to know she’s upset me and absolutely wouldn’t have meant any offence by it.

AIBU to think there is no justifying this behaviour? I just don’t know if I’m overreacting because I’m being protective of my son, or if I’m right to take a step back and want nothing to do with someone who sees herself as an advocate and fighter for SEN children but then uses these words??

No it's disgraceful and there's no place for it. I wouldn't want to be around it either. It's not often I judge other people but I would 100% judge someone for using this sort of language.

how often do you see her? getting five working parents together…. i imagine infrequent

distance yourself from the group

but surely the others aren’t keen either! So just drop individuals a message to say that the language being used by X is not something that sits comfortably with you (leave it at that!) but you value their friendship and would love to see them but you won’t be joining groups with her present

whatever you do… no need to create big drama or talk to lots of people about it

I don't have SEN kids (or indeed any kids) but I'd be telling her to fuck right off if she used words like 'spastic' and 'retard'.

@bestmoment three of them home educate and see each other several times a week. We then also see them at weekly group sessions and up until the start of this year we probably saw them once a week at least for a play date or outing. So not at all infrequent.

Your suggestion is exactly what I’ve done - said I don’t want my son exposed to that language so won’t be joining the usual activities etc but that I still love them and hope to be able to see them. Not making a drama at all, I think the other friend I spoke to just found it very difficult thinking everything was going to change and kept making excuses, so I just stood firm and said that I don’t want to be around it and don’t want my son around it. I even said to her that the last thing I want is drama, which is why I’m not confronting the friend or blocking her or doing anything to upset the balance.

Does she know these words are offensive? She may have been brought up using them, and not have the intelligence and reflective capacity to consider whether it’s ok.

i think I would tell her that these terms are really inappropriate and unkind. If she changes her behaviour then all good, if not then that tells you everything you need to know!

It is unpleasant but if you are quite senior in the SEN world, surely explaining what language is and isn't appropriate in a non confrontational way is a skill you absolutely have.

No need for 'calling her out', a professional well meaning conversation should totally be within your capabilities.

@Twoshoesnewshoes shes a very educated woman and doesn’t take well to being corrected. In fact one of the other reasons I’ve taken a step back is because she accused me of attacking her when she was telling another mum to just “join the access list” for London theatre tickets to get free carer tickets, and I said there wasn’t a universal list to join and the mum would have to look at individual theatres (or groups of theatres) policies. I wasn’t rude about it but she said I was attacking her.

@Hillrunning without going into specifics, I moved jobs last week in a lateral move across departments, from something that had nothing to do with SEN into something entirely focused on SEN. So still very new to it. As mentioned above, she will not react well to me having a conversation with her about it.

If you are 'quite senior' in the SEN world, why are you unable to appropriately challenge someone using disgraceful language?!
In purportedly withdrawing quietly and discussing it with everyone BAR the individual using those awful words, you have created low level drama.

Of course YANBU, but don’t you think you have a duty, not just because of your job or your child, but to all children (and adults) with SEN, to address this with her? Is she trying to be edgy (I know some young people with SEN self-describe with similar words as an attempt to reclaim them), or was she dragged up in an environment where these words were used casually, or is she of very low intelligence, for instance?

Also, why don’t the other parents find her language offensive?

As a senior position holder in the SEN world won’t you be responsible for advocating for such kids? I get that it’s tricky when you’re dealing with a friend, but I think this is a situation where there is some obligation in your part to set her straight.

Aside from the language being completely unacceptable, it sounds like an abusive way to talk to anyone, let alone your own child.

I’d be tempted to ask her how she would feel about being called a fat spastic, would it be just as funny?

To be honest, I’d even be questioning my friendship with the others in the group if that’s the kind of company they are happy to keep.

I hadn't seen that she would not react well, in that case you have probably made the right call. This could be a good opportunity for you to work out how to have this conversation anyway (not with her) but you will come across this endlessly in your new role so it really will serve you well.

If you don't have colleagues who can share this skill, there are lots of useful videos that gently explain the history and impact of such words that you could model.

To go back to your original question, actually ignorance is an excuse in many cases, lots an lots of people simply haven't had it clearly explained to them and aren't able to work it out for themselves so for thoes of us who can, helping to educate is important.

To be clear I mean she refers to herself as a “fat spastic” not her daughter. She uses spastic as a verb for her daughters behaviour.

I get what you’re all saying about needing to advocate for SEN children and maybe I just need some space to think of how to articulate it more clearly to her without creating drama. If it gets to the stage where she flips out at me, my son then loses access to a range of SEN groups that he relies on because she will make it difficult, and that’s not fair on him.

If she has a child with SEN herself (as I think you indicated in the op), I would imagine her use of these contentious words is a defence mechanism against them being used about her child? Her thinking might be ‘what’s the worst thing anyone could say about my dc? Well I’ll say it first to show I don’t give a flying fuck what they say.’

That's horrendous. I always, always try to find reasons and excuses for people - possibly too much so - and the only possible thing I can think of is the equivalent idea of the reclamation of the n word in hip hop. But it just doesn't wash. There's no excuse for this. Even in the early 80s at primary we all knew this language was wrong and not funny. It's not even a generational thing.

So upsetting and sad for you.

Usually I would have said you were unreasonable for not calling her out on it! However, have seen the update that your son would lose access to SEN groups he really needs, so understand why you are dealing with it the way you are

Really annoyed on your behalf that her offensive behaviour is spoiling the group - that's unfair on all of you

She absolutely should not be using those words, no

Good luck in the new position - after time & experience you may find other ways to deal with her

@maudelovesharold tbh I suspect the complete opposite - if her daughter looked like she had any physical disabilities she would never, ever use these words. If it doesn’t affect her daughter she doesn’t seem to care. She said I was overreacting and being pathetic to get upset that someone posted about threatening to send their child to a “naughty school for kids with autism” and no one who
commented seeing it as wrong, Because she doesn’t have to deal with the stigma attached to special schools.

Is she American?

@stargirl1701 no she grew up in the same area of England as I did and is a similar age. No cultural differences between me and her that might explain it.

Nope, that's not on at all. I find those words incredibly offensive and wouldn't be friends with anyone who used them habitually.
I have two children with ASN, one has ADHD and one has ASD.
What I find difficult is that my DS1 will use those words about himself. He is 16 and very high functioning, but when I challenge him on using them , he tells me that he is reclaiming them for himself so I have no right to comment.
Is that possibly what she is doing?

Those words are not acceptable.

Is she unaware of this? Or is she trying to be inflammatory?

well exactly

and this friend who also works in SEN worried that everything was going to change and kept making excuses rather than the appalling language this person is using…. well that’s pretty bloody appalling too

@bestmoment there were two friends I spoke to - the one who works with disabled children said she respects my decision, it was the other one who made excuses.

I don’t think it’s entirely fair to hold me accountable for not correcting her when I know it would cause significant distress for my own disabled child.

The woman is a disgrace. In what world does anyone think it is appropriate to mock disabilities?

You are a more tolerant person than I am OP because I don’t think I could keep my mouth shut. I also wouldn’t care what she thought of me and whether she thought I was attacking her. This sort of language and people like her have no place in society.

Why aren't the two friends you spoke to appalled too? The words you mention are some of the worst. Far more offensive than fuck or cunt.

Is this woman a Queen Bee type, by any chance? Or might it be that nobody wants to rock the boat for fear of losing access to groups and social connections? You mentioned she would 'make it difficult' for your own DC to attend a group. How would she do this?

FWIW, isn't it everybody's responsibility to challenge such language?