Weighting for the backlash

[quisensoucie]

Weighing aeroplane passengers is not a new phenomenon, so the 'fat-shaming' trope is rather misplaced
'In the early days of air travel, Airlines frequently weighed passengers and even crew to properly balance the smaller, less sophisticated aircraft, according to the Smithsonian.

Passenger weight can have an impact on another aspect of flying: seat size.'
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/then-amp-now-a-weighty-matter-46320857/&ved=2ahUKEwi8--2O452EAxU2a0EAHa-9B8sQFnoECCsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw36nIvu41LW3mTW1jC32O9v

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airlines-weigh-passengers-check-in-baggage-cargo-balance-a8860071.html

This is a safety issue, not about making larger people pay more. But again, the science and physics are dismissed because 'feelings'

Someone has to lift your bag. The charge is supposed to be a disincentive to overpacking. Nobody has to lift you.

My point stands.
You're entitled to yours.

TBH if you actually look at typical fuel burn penalties for weight increases the thin folk here might be disappointed at how little they would gain financially if it was pay by weight…maybe a quid or two absolute max difference between fuel costs for a heavy verse a light passenger on a shorthaul flight.

Any rush to load the aircraft to near-perfect theoretical level of cargo vs. Fuel will inevitably lead to more frequent catastrophic events in flight.

@Anyotherdude

But it’s to some extent theoretical now….where I worked the fuel burn for a sector from A to B was based the projected load for the flight, which was amongst other things based on theoretical (assumed) weights. Some days the reality was the weight was known slightly below plan but some days it was above..

The really important thing is as long as the extra legal buffers for contingencies (such as the weight possibly being slightly wrong, forecast winds being wrong..there’s a whole list), plus possible diversion at destination and then other bits of padding that are in the current rules for fuel loading stay in place there’s should not be any increased risk of catastrophic events..and in any event never mind the theory, the crew do have fuel gauges.

I take it you've never been unfortunate enough to sit beside someone who sits effectively diagonally in their seat and protrudes their legs in front of your seat as well as their own?

im 5ft 10 & have never put my legs across my neighbour.

OP’s clearly woken up on the wrong side of the bed today and thought, let’s have a little stir. Fat people! No-one cares about fat people so let’s give that a poke.

Sadly, you seemed determined to derail this thread and are falling back on the 'goady' trope.
Some interesting points have been made by MNs, and having a debate is the adult way to express opinions, not just shouting your point

well yes that is possible

or she wants to debate something that i personally reckon is very much on a possibility of being spread out, and her own view is that it’s reasonable.

I do as well actually!

doesn’t mean we’re grumpy! do you think anyone disagreeing with you must be grumpy?

There's only one reason and It's because they eat too much.

There are however many reasons why people eat too much.

It’s an entirely pointless thread. Airlines aren’t trying to get people to allow themselves to be weighed.
it’s a non-issue.
Its not needed, it would be prohibitively expensive for airlines, the tech isn’t there to roll it out, no-one is asking for it.

When I first (mis) heard this 'news' as 'Thinair' I guessed what it was about. Ditto this post's title pun weighting/waiting.

Irrespective of 'feelz' loaded weight is a fundamental factor in calculating fuel loads (=costs) and ultimately load 'distribution' to enable the safe take off, flight and landing of aircraft. Each type of aircraft flown has this basic info going along with it.

It doesn't matter what the cargo is - people and luggage, plastic noses filled with cocaine, etc, etc - it's the weight that matters. (nb: exceptions apply, such as horses and racing cars, more through uneven distribution/hazards).

It's actually Finnair, but an idea worth running with - mefinks.

@TheHateIsNotGood

but an idea worth running with - mefinks.

One of the many problems with the whole idea of using real passenger and hand baggage weights is when do you do the weighing? To be genuinely accurate it has to be at the gate (to capture the weight of last minute purchases such as Duty free)...and that opens a whole can of worms, for starters there goes quickish boarding, so bye bye short turnrounds, down goes aircraft utilisation and voila, up go ticket prices

Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but for the benefit of others it's maybe worth pointing out that the beauty of the current system - statistically derived, properly validated assumed weights - is that it allows the basics to be done well before the passengers get anywhere near the aircraft, by basics I mean flight planning, fuel planning, fuel loading, performance calculations, load sheet preparation....

If instead you move to using actual weights with weighing at the gate then when does all the planning and performance number crunching get done? After doors close? If that's the case in theory you wouldn't even be able to finish refuelling until the last passenger had boarded.

This is all long winded way of agreeing very much with @Pandadunks previous comment: "Its not needed, it would be prohibitively expensive for airlines, the tech isn’t there to roll it out, no-one is asking for it."

Despite the headlines and column inches all Finnair are doing is their five year crosscheck that the assumed weights they use are valid.

No prob for receiving your perspective NotUAgain (sic.) as I respect your opinion and knowledge. I don't disagree with any of what you say, but.... with budget airlines finding a cost-effective balance I do think the pax+baggage weight has some momentum to it.

With regards to technology, pax+bag scales aren't really beyond the existing tech capabilities; aviation aside, weigh-scales, etc have been around a very long time.

I think the 'Thinair' idea would work well on very busy routes (eg: LGW-AGP).

Forgot to add - weigh-in at 'specialized' check-ins, prior to the gate. And declarations of pax weight to be made at booking, as well as baggage. Any overweight findings at the gate to be subject to the same 'penalty' structures (and more) that some airlines already apply.

Any weight 'margins' are already factored in to the flight calculations.

I wouldn't describe your height as especially tall.

In an accident somebody may well have to lift you, or at least manouvre you.

‘Also it seems unfair to get charged a fortune for being a kilos over on a 15kg baggage limit, when someone else can literally be 30kg over a healthy weight.’

Can’t argue with stupid!

someone has to lift your bags, that’s why there are weight restrictions or charges for very heavy luggage - which might take a couple of people or piece of equipment to move safely.

‘im 5ft 10 & have never put my legs across my neighbour.’

because that’s not very tall? That average for a U.K. man. I’ve sat beside some very big - as in tall but weight in proportion with that height and their legs and big feet and frame can take up a LOT of space.

@TheHateIsNotGood

with budget airlines finding a cost-effective balance I do think the pax+baggage weight has some momentum to it.

Hi, as I see it it is being cost effective that's the problem here... at most if not all airlines over the years all the pre-departure processes, both those visible to the public and those that are not, have been streamlined to reduce time scales and to reduce cost...we're even down to (almost) self service gates at some airports...

If the idea under any "weigh to fly" scheme is to have an absolutely accurate weight for every single passenger plus their carry on then everybody has to be weighed at the gate on boarding. Reason for that being to any avoid errors with any self declarations of weight on booking😉 or any subterfuge at check in resulting in hand baggage not being weighed, or to account for duty free bought after check-in..)

That's putting an extra step and possibly an extra personpower element into the departure process, so up go costs, and what the LoCos won't stand for is the weighing, or anything associated with it, slowing down boarding and extending turnround times.

I know one should never say never but ATM I'm finding it tough to envisage how any such scheme would work on a Short Haul quick turn with maybe 200'ish passengers....the idea of weighing potentially >400 passengers at the gate during boarding for a Long Haul flight is the stuff of nightmares...

HTH

The real problem is airlines have crammed in more seats and slashed legroom. It was never an issue in the 1970s when there was space. Maybe they should stop treating passengers like cattle?

Last year I took a couple of flights where there was a big problem with unruly behaviour from passengers. One guy was completely off his head and trying to open a door during landing when we were still in the air. Instead of weighing passengers maybe they should try drug testing them and checking for illegal substances in their luggage? Might be more to the point.

‘with budget airlines finding a cost-effective balance I do think the pax+baggage weight has some momentum to it.’

it clearly has zero momentum to it - if RyanAir thought they could make more profit this way they’d be doing it. The fact that they aren’t just shows that it’s not viable.

This begs the question of how 'off his head' this guy was as he was getting on the plane - did he take something prior to flying which just kicked in?

I think he took something during the flight. Just over half way through the trip a load of passengers at the back suddenly became very noisy. There was a guy a few rows forward who took his shirt off and had to be told to get dressed. Then the off-his-head one suddenly loomed up from the back and sat in the empty seat in front of me. A hostess tried to humour him but everyone else was trying not to make eye contact as he was menacing too. Then, during landing he started trying to WhatsApp a friend, stood up, got his bag from the overhead locker and headed down the aisle for the door. Was finally got to sit down by fellow passengers.

He was the correct BMI. People can be perfectly slim and a menace to others!

Weighing luggage is about the safety of the people lifting the case to and from the plane, not the plane itself.

Given the weight of the actual plane itself; the added weight of heavier passengers is inconsequential.

@TorringtonDean

The real problem is airlines have crammed in more seats and slashed legroom. It was never an issue in the 1970s when there was space. Maybe they should stop treating passengers like cattle?

They shouldn't treat passengers like cattle but when it comes to seating, if you want 1970's seat pitches back do you also want 1970's prices?

Despite rumours the airlines aren't flush with cash, Ryanair might be heading for a bumper year, making maybe an average of 20 pounds profit on the average passenger over the year.....most short haul operators it'll be closer to 10......

Remove seats to improve pitch and prices will go up....

The maximum permitted bag weight is 32kg across all airlines I believe. You are correct; this is due to the safety of lifting the bag rather than anything to do with the aircraft itself.

When I worked in travel you could pool luggage allowances between families (for example, if a family of 4 were travelling with 20kg luggage allowance, they could take up to 4 bags totalling 80kg) but no individual case could be more than 32kg. Hence why kids often took small trunki size cases weighing maybe 10kg each and the parents would take larger cases weighing maybe 25-30kg.