DD20 says she would still live with me if I had given her that option

[Mastmw7g]

I want to ask if I was unreasonable for allowing the way DH encouraged her to move out, but that's probably an unreasonable thing to ask. I felt sometimes like he was almost manipulating her. So it was her choice, but she was very hesitant to make that choice.

Living with her was awful. It wasn't good for my younger children, so I know it was the best choice for the rest of us. But I doubt it was the best choice for her. I've had this surge of anxiety since she moved out and even started therapy. It's possible I'm codependent. Why else would I worry about her when I should be sleeping?

Regardless, yesterday I went over her home and she said she would still live with me if I had given her that option. In therapy I was asked if she chose to leave or I made her leave and I truthfully didn't know the answer, but I suppose now I do. I made her leave because she felt she had no option to stay. Now I'm still distracted from everything I do because I'm nervous and worried for her, but I also feel deep guilt for making her fly before she was ready to leave the nest.

"She made threats and said she was going to be violent" and what was your response to this? Because there are two routes, one is usually to tell them not to do that but the other is to say let's follow that up then and see where it would lead. It is a thing children and teens especially do, they just sit with that thought and don't think through the consequences of her actions. So follow that thought, the police would be called, she would be arrested for criminal damage or assault or both. What could that lead to? Inability to keep her job or get jobs in the future? Being known for being violent would she keep any friends? It is a very immature response to a situation.

I wonder how many times there were consequences to her behaviour whilst she was living at home because now she isn't living at home, has said she would move back but hasn't taken ownership of her actions that led to to being asked to leave which was absolutely the right thing to do. You cannot parent out of fear of her behaviour, no one benefitted from her living at home, not you, not your other children.

What was your response when she said she would live back at home? Because again it seems you didn't have that hard conversation where you would remind her of her behaviour whilst there. She has been allowed to scream, cry, explode and this is the consequence now. Of course it is hard going home to an empty house, she could choose to flat share for company. I would encourage her to get therapy and if that is something you can help her with financially I would do it. She seems angry and sad, this hasn't come from moving out this appears to be her default setting so maybe she would like to unpick that to feel better.

I don't know if she's ever apologised for her behavior. Yesterday we had a conflict because she was using inappropriate language around her siblings and I asked her to instead wait until she was away from them to use that language and this upset her. She didn't apologise and I walked away. But earlier in the day she'd messaged me that she wanted to quit her job because she hates it and asked for my help finding a new job, and said she'd love to look over her prospects with me after work. So I did research and was ready to do that. Then she told me she wasn't in the mood after having a bad week and a half, so I carefully told her my time and effort was valuable and deserved to be valued. While she didn't outright apologise, she said I deserve to be valued. So I think that exchange was successful.

Your son sounds lovely. I'm jealous.

Yes, I need to be mindful of the fact that blended families have specific challenges I put on her. I know she has a good relationship with my husband, but that doesn't mean that it's easy to adjust her behavior to make it appropriate to be around small children after a hard work week.

She has a job, but isn't making as much money as she would like. She's been working there almost a month and seems to hate it. It's hard to determine if her complaints are because the job is not a good fit for her or she would have such difficulties no matter where she works.

Yes, I have certainly posted about her before. I've started therapy myself since then. I need to learn strategies for dealing with the anxiety I feel since she moved out. It wouldn't be fair to her if my worrying caused her greater worry.

I moved out at 20yr. It was hard at times financially but the independence was good and you learn to be resourceful. I was clashing a bit with my mum at the time (not in a bad way just over housework etc) and we both needed our own space.

I’ve reached that point with my 23yr daughter now in that we both need our own homes to do things the way we want. Only problem is cost of living and her finding a place she can afford by herself.

She has a high opinion of the way she looks and thinks the has a lot of empathy, though sometimes I think she confuses the sensitivity she feels for herself with empathy for others. Yesterday I helped her choose a therapist and she had to select what she needed to work on in therapy and she did not want to choose self esteem because she said nothing is wrong with her self esteem. Her biggest complaint seems to be that my husband always did everything for her, but she said this means he should continue to do things for her instead of expecting her to do them herself.

Yes, I would tend to agree with this. The relationship with her stepfather sounds quite odd, tbh, she prefers him over you, asks him to accompany her to the rent company office and to help her choose a therapist, and yet he was the one who managed her out the family home when he had had enough of her behaviour, despite her having MH diagnoses.

Where is her dad in the picture? Because it looks a bit like she has moved out, so you, your husband and the children of this partnership can have a nice family home, whilst she is elsewhere.

Of course, on the other hand, it is pretty normal for twenty year olds to live independently, not least when they go to university or start working and earning. So to that extent, it is a life step. It sounds like one with lots of baggage that hasn’t been handled very well, though. Question is whether DH would expect his own DC to move out at that age.

I'll do that. Right now I've asked her on her days off from work if she wants me to bring food over and share a meal with her. I come alone, so it's just the two of us. She was too busy this last time and I saw that as a positive thing because she'd met someone to spend time with and had made plans. I'll continue trying to make a weekly plan with her.

She does have diagnoses from when she was younger for things like depression and anxiety. I asked her if she wanted to see someone other than a therapist for diagnostic purposes because it may help with her therapy if she learns she's dealing with anything else, like a personality disorder. She doesn't see the point because she doesn't think she has a personality disorder. She is uncomfortable taking medication, so she may just have untreated depression and anxiety.

I didn't really have a response to her making threats and saying she was going to be violent. I exchanged a look with my husband and we stayed silent while she said these things. Afterwards I mentioned to her that it can be hard to be a worker in one of these offices because you get the full force of everyone's anger when things are badly managed by people above you. She appeared to listen.

I'll remember I cannot parent out of fear. That's a very good thing for me to read, and useful. I just listened when she said she would still live with me if I'd given her that option. I was in her home and the rest of my family wasn't there, so I could have talked about her behaviors without fear of her reaction causing a bad environment for the younger children to deal with. So maybe that was a missed opportunity.

I helped her find a therapist yesterday and we'll continue to pay for that. I wouldn't want a situation where the cost deters her from seeking treatment.

Yes, I worry a lot about the cost of living and whether she can afford her place without my help. She makes enough to cover bills, but there's not much leftover for food, getting around, and going out.

@DaffodilsAlready Her dad lives with his parents. After work she came over and spent an hour in my bedroom on a phone call with their family. She intended to call and wish them a good lunar new year, but of course they talked to her extensively about her job and the fact she had moved out, because she hadn't spoken to them since Christmas. They told her she could move and live with them, that her aunt could get her a better job. It would be a big move, though, so I doubt she's considering it at this time. If she is struggling after a year on her own, she may be more receptive to the offer. My husband says he thinks it's a great idea and he would be happy if she moved away to be with them. I don't feel the same. I would like to keep her living close to me, but he said that's because I make decisions that aren't in my self interest.

I have asked him if he would have our kids together move out at such a young age, and he said he would if they acted like her. That was a hard thing to hear.

She sounds a bit like me when I was about 20, that's when I first moved to my own place. (Had lived away for college at 17 for 6 months w/ bf).. Had to move back in after a year! But my circumstances were DV related sadly. I think she has issues but nothing to say she is the worst to live with. Not to say she should move back necessarily. I know much worse late teens/early 20s sadly. Keep on being supportive to her in her new home, bring round stuff, cook together in her kitchen, help with DIY etc. Make sure you don't make her feel abandoned, but nurture her journey to independence as she is clearly capable of paying her rent. Hence her anger at the notice on the door. I would have been p'd off with that too if I'd paid! And asking your husband for backup is sensible, she's a young girl living alone with a false eviction notice. I wish I'd had a dad or step dad during my time with a dodgy landlord.

How much agency do you have in the decisions you make about your children? And how much is it what your husband wants? Does he recognise that asking a DC to move out is not only up to him? What if you decided you wanted DD to come back and live with you if she was progressing in therapy and struggling financially?

I think your husband would be glad if DD moved as then it would no longer be something he needs to concern himself with at all. To some extent, fair as DD is not his, but he does not get to decide for you. Plus, it sounds like this has not always been his attitude, he has almost made DD more attentive to him over you and now does not want any responsibility for her difficulties.

It is good that DD knows her dad’s side of the family would be supportive if she did want to move, though. I hope the therapy helps.

She sounds like she really needs a social worker / key worker of some sort to help her into independence and access mental health support.

I would accompany her to the GP to discuss this. I suspect she would need a diagnosis first.

It sounds to me like she has not thrived living at home with you and your husband. Living away from home may well be good for her. She needs extensive ongoing support to help settle her into life living as an adult.

If you can afford it, look into DBT for her, they will teach her how to manage her emotions and the skills of thinking and behaving like a mature adult.
It may be that because of past trauma and associated mental health difficulties, she was never able to have the mental clarity to pick up and learn these skills.

Unfortunately, it does not sound like you and your husband taught her these skills, if your response to her threat of violence is an example. Gentle coaching is the way, rather than punishment.

And it definitely does sound like your husband is operating from a place of self interest. It will have to be you who is her champion and keeps an eye on her.

It is really good that you are asking questions and seeking support. Keep going and keep asking for as long as you need.

She will eventually settle down, if it is a personality disorder like Emotionally unstable personality disorder, this eventually calms down the older a person gets.

Have you tried to find support groups online or otherwise for parents of neurodivergent or “failure to launch” young or Not Otherwise Specified developmental disorders… they may have tips and techniques that may be useful to you. I think that can be a promising place to start. Maybe other Mumsnetters can point you to specific places?

Most of all, just be her true friend and give her your loving attention and affection… that may have been the root cause of all of this and what she was seeking all along. This will be very healing, as healing as any medication she might be given.

Use positive reinforcement and praise and congratulate her when she does the slightest thing right. Give positive suggestions of what you would have liked to see instead for any “bad” behaviour you see, and avoid criticism like the plague.

I think its best for everyone that she doesn't live at home. But as PP has mentioned, I'd support her with batch cooking so you know she has some homemade meals at hand to take the strain off her.

Check in that she's keeping on top of her washing etc. It's nothing more than you'd do at home and frankly you don't want her living arrangements to fail because you can't have behaviour like that back home.

Your husband sounds like he's been very good with her all things considered

You sound involved and caring. Although things may not have been handled perfectly, it doesn't sound at all like you've washed your hands of her, but more like you're trying to help in every way possible.

I think you were right that she had to leave and she should remain living independently. Unfortunately as an adult it's not really possible to live happily and harmoniously with others unless you respect their boundaries and have a good level of tolerance and self-control. You and your other DC should not be walking on eggshells in your own home because you're afraid that you might provoke another violent outburst from her.

Maybe it’s not too late to start reading general parenting books, OP?

Your daughter sends emotionally very young and most of it would still apply.

It sounds to me as though your DH has made your dd completely dependent on him, doing everything for her so she has little independence, making her prefer him to you etc, then washed his hands of her when it suited him. I think it's understandable that she wonders why he no longer wants to do anything for her when he has done so all her life. His complete 360 must have been confusing.
The result of this is that it is you and your dd that are now in therapy and he is happy as Larry hoping she moves hundreds of miles away.
It all sounds a very strange situation and i totally understand why you are questioning your and your dh decisions.
Your dd sounds vulnerable and as she had already been diagnosed with MH problems, I would have done anything to support her, and that would have included her staying at home till she was ready to move out. However, I do say that as the mother of an only child and appreciate that it's a different situation when you have younger children to consider.

Please google inattentive adhd it sounds like she has some traits.
My dad said I had to move out when I was 17/18 - it was on the back of me fighting with my mother and he could not handle it anymore.
To be fair to me in the 12 months prior I had a) told then I had an eating disorder off the back of being sexually abused as a child by a stranger.
b) I had just had a car accident with friend and she unfortunately sadly had become a quadriplegic.
c) we had all just moved house.
My mother was furious with him and threatened to divorce him if he didn’t say I could stay - but once you have been asked to leave you don’t feel welcome.
My dads theory was if I had to fend for myself then I would not worry so much about my eating disorder / my friends injuries etc.
Anyway, I came on to say although this sounds very bad I have a close relationship with my parents. I did not have any long lasting issues with them because I’d been asked to move out. It was likely I was making family life (I have two younger siblings) unbearable.
In my 50s was diagnosed with inattentive adhd - we have trouble regulating emotions, struggle with exec functions and feeling motivated (hence her valuing your husband’s help) and we are very messy.

Most kids have left by 18/19 to go to uni etc, no I wasn’t absolutely prepared for life when I left but the rest you figure out as you are going along

Dont feel guilty, just be there for her if she has any questions and regularly ask her if she is doing ok…..she is an adult now

Her biggest complaint seems to be that my husband always did everything for her, but she said this means he should continue to do things for her instead of expecting her to do them herself.

What kind of things did he do for her? Why does sh think he needs to keep doing them?

They told her she could move and live with them, that her aunt could get her a better job. It would be a big move, though, so I doubt she's considering it at this time. If she is struggling after a year on her own, she may be more receptive to the offer. My husband says he thinks it's a great idea and he would be happy if she moved away to be with them. I don't feel the same. I would like to keep her living close to me, but he said that's because I make decisions that aren't in my self interest.

YABU here, you can’t have it both ways. Support her in any move, don’t hold her back. Your dh is right.

My husband and I fought a great deal about how to parent her when she was younger. I thought he did too much for her and he thought I was too harsh. We didn't successfully parent together. He didn't ask her to move out, but just took her to look at rentals, kept talking positively about her moving until she agreed to let him fill out the paperwork for her. He thought she would view this as her making the choice to move out, but she obviously wasn't fooled because she told me I gave her no option to stay.

He's made it clear that he will not live with her again. We'd have to divorce if I wanted to move in with her again. He definitely does not acknowledge our contribution to her issues. He says it's a recent development and blames the people she chose to surround herself with and other choices she made.

She's had therapy for years. She says what works for her is when the therapist listens and serves as an outlet for her to talk and come to insights on her own. I understand that this type of therapy is what she's comfortable with but hope she tries a new approach, because I don't think the old way is working.

I've talked to her about going in for diagnostic purposes. She's resistant because she's always associated that with having to take medication which she's against. She would want to do it alone if she agreed, but she doesn't see the point because she doesn't think she has a personality disorder.

She hasn't thrived with us. That's true.

I mentioned DBT to her, but she wasn't interested. She's dealt with therapy for years and says all she needs is someone who listens and serves as an outlet while she talks and reaches her own insights.

I agree we haven't taught her the skills she needs.

I started searching for online support groups after reading this. My request to join was just accepted by one, so I'm reading what others have posted and the advice they were given. I hope to feel comfortable to ask for advice myself soon.

Since my husband is practicing setting boundaries with her she's leaning on me for support so I'm trying to do a good job of that. I did praise her quite a bit for getting established with a therapist again. I'll keep trying to do that.