How do you deal with victim mentality behaviour

[JonnyTheDogFacedBoy]

I think I'm describing this behaviour accurately by saying victim mentality, but I might be wrong.

Basically, whenever anyone tries to have a difficult conversation with my mother, or she does something to upset someone and they call her on it, she will cry (fair enough, I know that's not always controllable) but the infuriating thing is that she will apologise in such an overly dramatic way to garner sympathy.

So, using a made up scenario as an example: she says she will meet me at a restaurant at 1pm. She arrives at 2pm. I say, in a mildly annoyed voice but not shouting, "mum, you're an hour late, what happened? I've been sat here like a lemon."
She would burst in to tears and wail "why are you shouting at me? I'm sorry I'm such a useless terrible person and everyone hates me because I'm such a horrible human" etc etc. So I then have to comfort her and reassure her and she's neatly sidestepped being accountable for her behaviour.

It makes it impossible to discuss anything important with her because she always turns the dynamic around to her needing me (or whoever she's with) to reassure her. The drama triangle thing rings a bell, like any instance where she could be seen as the wrongdoer switches round to her being the victim.

Anyone have any experience of this dynamic and know how to respond in a more useful way? Also, feel free to share any of your personal experiences of this mindfuckery behaviour. Misery loves company, as they say.

Its really common, @BananaWaving . Again, it is all about the narc. Sorry this happened to you. Glad you realized it was not normal eventually.

This has really resonated with me. We (the children) would comfort her when she would cry after my stepfather would smash the house up or beat us. We didn't cry, she did. We would be shaken up and scared, but I think we almost stepped in to a caring role to distance ourselves from our own feelings. Like, focus on her and make her feel better.

You make a good point about not realising things aren't normal until you grow up and get some distance.

I'd avoid her completely. As she's your mum this might not work for you, but you asked how we deal with this sort of unhinged manipulation and that's what I do - avoid them.

I’m seriously screwed up though even after decades of therapy and psychiatric treatment

I’m so sorry you went through that OP xx

Probably because it was a strategy she learned as a child. What was her mum/your grandmother like?

Op I’m so sorry this sounds awful and very hard work. I think low contact is the way to go.

“You can’t change any behaviour except for your own. “
^ that is a solid piece of advice. Your mum won’t ever change and nothing you will do will make her change.

If I were you I’d use withdrawal. If ever she rants down the phone - “sorry mum I don’t want to hear it. I’ll speak to you another day” then hang up and leave it a few days before contact. If she’s late then leave, tell her you waited half an hour and then next time she asks decline.

I honestly feel for your brother. It’s unforgivable that she allowed what she allowed and then still treats him so badly. P

Me too. My siblings and I have a good relationship though, and we regularly bond over the fact we are all relatively normal and raising our families nicely, in comparison to our own childhoods. Helps to laugh about it.

I'm sorry you've had this bullshit too.

Everyone I've ever met who behaves like this has a personality disorder. I'm not saying everyone who does it definitely does, but in my experience there's definitely a crossover.

JonnyTheDogFacedBoy

I would suggest reading/googling Karpman's The Drama Triangle

Her behaviour will make sense and how to stop it 😊

My DM used to do this - she’d be in the wrong over something, but if anyone said anything remotely critical, let alone actually ticking her off, she’d start crying - to make us feel sorry for her.

Alas, I never did find a way to handle it - she died in 2015. We used to walk around her on eggshells much of the time.

Looking back, I think in some perverse way she just enjoyed feeling like a victim.

Sorry to hear that, @BananaWaving , and for your experiences @JonnyTheDogFacedBoy . Its important to step out from the Fear Obligation Guilt cycle and take care of ourselves. I got to have a better relationship with my mother towards to end of her life, but she could never accept that her decision to leave my father when I was 6 and leave me behind may have affected me. I decided that admitting wrong (sincerely, not performatively like you have described) takes a lot of internal strength and she just never had that. Obviously things affect us all differently, and differently at different times, but I decided in was important to say my piece about her behaviour, set my limits and then stop discussing it further. I could have cut off contact, but having tried that, and seen the impact on several siblings, I decided to try and have a relationship with her. Not doing the drama with her really helped me.

To be able to experience this as a child and not repeat it with your own children or in your adult relationships is a sign of such strength, however messed up you feel. Hugs to anyone with a narc mother reading this.

I'm low contact with my mother.
She moved a nasty peace of s**t into our childhood home as she can't be single so puts up with the worst men. When confronted many years later she has sudden amnesia about anything bad that happened, blames others (including her children) and says she did her best. She never takes accountability, never apologises, never wants to acknowledge any of her mistakes or wrongdoing. She loves moaning and bitching about others. However she isn't really interested in other peoples interests. She sulks if you don't follow her script/ ideas or put boundaries in place.
It's not all her fault - there's some undiagnosed neurodiversity. She has zero interest in changing and it negatively affects me so I have a distanced relationship with her.

Natural consequences - if she’s late or whatever, you already left or have to go shortly.
broken record - “I'm not being unreasonable, I'm upset that you were late” however she tries to manipulate just keep repeating the same phrase
grey rock - don’t show any emotion, positive or negative. Share very little about your life. Don’t notice anything passive aggressive no matter how obvious. Politely excuse yourself whenever she gets irritating.

it’s hard to do and especially so when it’s your mum (I speak from experience) but eventually she might work out you won’t play her games anymore and might change. Chances are she will only try harder at first. Stick to your strategy and eventually she might adapt.

Pretty classic narcissistic behaviour I'd say. Victim mentality - check. Inability to accept responsibility or accountability - check. Overblown sense of their own importance - check.

I'm afraid that while her behaviour may well be in part as a result of her own trauma or negative experiences with your stepfather, that doesn't change the fact that her behaviour is a problem. And as narcissists simply cannot self reflect or accept any responsibility, expecting change is almost impossible.

In the case of your brother, well done for having the courage to acknowledge his pain and to say something. However, he will never ever get her to admit that she made mistakes (except in the grandiose, oh, I'm such a terrible person kind of way. Which as you know, is not the same). If he pushes it, all that will happen is she will go more OTT. Suicide threats are not unusual..

I'm sorry you grew up with this. it's very hard.

YANBU. My mum gave me COVID when I was pregnant. She had just had it and insisted on coming to visit to see my eldest saying she didn't have it anymore. Lo and behold I get it straight after her visit. She rings me crying, absolutely sobbing, about how she would never have come if she'd had it, it can't have been her that gave me it, etc etc. It was very OTT. If anyone should have been feeling sorry for themselves it was me and yet I ended up comforting her! No responsibility taken either.

Absolutely, my DM could be emotionally immature, I think it maybe because she was very unwell as a child so obviously was given a lot of attention. My older Dsis parented her at times. There was a lot of walking kn eggshells.

Sounds a bit like what I have heard called 'emotional immaturity', and it's often linked to childhood experiences - did she have a good childhood?
Maybe some of this article is relevant?
https://www.verywellhealth.com/emotional-immaturity-warning-signs-5218497

What would happen if you got tearful in response to your mother? What if you said you felt upset at being left alone for ages in a restaurant. It certainly makes for an interesting dynamic. If your mother starts attacking, then run out tearfully.

I can bet she won't be forthcoming with an apology and you can just be not in contact for a while. At least it will give you a break from the dramatics.

If the article is helpful Op then can I suggest Adult children of emotionally immature parents by Lindsay Gibson as a good read. Won't change her (and maybe she is a narcissist rather than emotionally immature) but may help you to look on and observe the behaviour without emotionally engaging with it. Bit like watching a social experiment.

I think she is emotionally immature. I know her father wasn't nice - verbally abusive and a bully. Also, she's one of 4 daughters and the youngest. The eldest was much older and like an extra mum, the middle two were 11 months apart in age and very close, then my mum was much younger. She's said before the middle two bullied her and were thick as thieves, teaming up against her all the time etc. No idea how much of that is factual, but she certainly believes it.

@minthybobs
May I pick your brains? What would be an appropriate response to someone weaponising a 'theoretical' diagnosis. ie the GP thinks I might have Alzheimer's soon now I need you to all do as I say (chest clutching). How to respond without looking heartless.

I could also use some advice on this.

This is my MIL, down to the last huff and puff. Now she's in her mid Eighties she's finally grown out of it. Thank fuck.

Me too