Can we talk about the elephant in the room?

[NeptunaOfTheMermaidBattleSquadron]

I feel like as a society we need to start talking about the elephant in the room when it comes to climate change.

All these green measures being put on individuals are surely being wiped out because of all the bombing. Everywhere. All this war and conflict. No one is looking at the impact on the climate. Everything we're doing seems so trivial and pointless because in the same breath we're sending weapons (often called international aid) thousands of miles.

Then there's the manufacturing for it. The weapons testing. All the jet fuel to send the RAF USAF etc all around the world on bombing sprees. The supplies we're sending all over the place, weapons, medicine, rations... it's mind-boggling to think of the sheer scale of this.

And while we're acknowledging and working on fast fashion, home heating, electricity generation, over use of plastics, overpopulation, traceability etc, we're not even talking about or questioning all these bombs exploding everywhere!

We typically think of MAD as nuclear apocalypse, but surely people refusing to actually engage with each other to the point of forcing the world into something with the carbon footprint of a war (never mind several of them) is the climate change version of MAD. We can't reverse it.

I feel like politicians and diplomats just aren't trying hard enough with this because war is so profitable.

Why aren't just stop oil and all those other activists out there trying to protest the most avoidable thing we're doing with the biggest carbon footprint and pressuring governments to go back to diplomacy instead of treating their people as expendable?

IDK what the answer is but we seriously need to get a handle on this and stop using bombs to make points (they're not very good at it anyway) because of this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68110310

Sorry I just needed a bit of a rant. AIBU that they need to try harder to avoid armed conflicts and solve things like adults for the sake of the planet because the stakes are so much higher than one territory or issue? I haven't had much sleep this week so please explain why IABU if you think I am.

@Poppysmom22

We can make all the changes we want as individuals and even as a nation but unless you make the USA and China think differently there’s no chance of any real change

China has just a small fraction of the emissions per capita as an American or Brit,- not even factoring in all the stuff they produce so we don’t have to. Why should a Chinese. Expecting a nation of 1.4 billion to have similar absolutely emissions to a nation of 20x fewer people is absurd.

I studied history and it is widely acknowledged that money has always been a factor. One of the most powerful families in the world made their first fortune during the US war of independence. Read the recent studies over why DLloydGeorge didn't want to negotiate with germany in 1917 when germany requested negotiations - financial impact a factor. A prominent EU politician has recently said publicly that his country should appreciate how profitable sending arms to Ukraine is/will be.

sorry I linked wrong quote please ignore!

Totally agree about all the wars and manufacturing of weapons . I said this to my DH earlier and he disagreed.

There is money in wars, climate destruction, developing weaponry. Electing narcissists and psychopaths to higher political office to make these decisions. Whilst other psychopaths head big corporations with vested interests.
People buy shares in manufacturers.
The list goes on.

Population is the elephant in the room. And the resources that the 1% use whilst telling the rest of us to be environmentally friendly.

War also has a massive effect on food production/quality. It has been found that sites from the first world war are still heavily contaminated.

There's work currently going on to assess the soil quality in Ukraine and it's painting a very bleak picture. It's worrying as the Ukraine was one of the top exporters of crops for consumption, and particularly to developing countries. Contaminants from warfare don't just make the crops unsafe, but can also change the nutritional quality, so whilst some may be considered 'safe', the changed nutritional ratios will increase malnutrition in the countries where it is already rife.

Makes you wonder if man should ever move to Mars or the Moon will they still be fighting over who owns what?

If planet Earth were to spontaneously combust the rest of the universe would carry on the same. We wouldn't be missed, makes you realise how utterly insignificant we are in the big scheme of things.

@ConsuelaHammock

Population is the elephant in the room. And the resources that the 1% use whilst telling the rest of us to be environmentally friendly.

Afghanistan produces 0.7 tonnes of greenhouse gases per capita. Austria 8.7. Australia 22 per capita. That’s a hell of a difference.

I think your second point is far more relevant. Until the super rich are made to wind in their gigantic climate footprint, the average Joe will not willingly do so either.

So we should never help people? Through military force?
The Jews in WW2? The kids in Syria having seizures when the Assad regime chemically bombed them? (Videos are horrific).
Innocent Ukrainians when their women and children are being raped? Yeah fuck em.

nobody likes war, the armed forces don’t like war. War is the process when political dialogue has broken down and innocent people suffer. The law of armed conflict is in place to protect innocent people.

as for RAF fuel, small pride to pay to protect people, no?

There are perhaps 10,000 stars like our Sun in the universe for every grain of sand on planet Earth.

Our Galaxy is too big in size for the scope of the human mind to conceive. And it just one among perhaps a trillion galaxies.

It starts with people, what are people doing to help the planet

There's this 'I will live my life however I want, the politicians and everyone else has to fix it all'

I agree. There's no such thing as a carbon neutral war.
When Ukraine blew up the Nord Stream pipeline it leaked between 100,000 and 400,000 tons of methane into the Baltic as well as forcing German people to purchase more expensive natural gas from America.

We really must punish drivers more though and fuck over the farmers who produce our food.

Totally agree. Population isn't as much of an elephant as overconsumption, which is why Western wealthy climate change activists etc like to talk about overpopulation in Africa rather than overconsumption in the West. The 1% dont want to talk about overconsumption because it will mean changing their own lifestyles too much. For example, emissions from aviation, the vast majority are not from people going on holiday once a year but from a tiny number of people who fly by private jet/ frequent flyers etc. They would rather tell poor Black women who have no access to welfare, poor education, and limited access to contraception to not have too many babies than do anything to impact their own lifestyles. The only proven way of reducing birthrate is through educating women and girls and raising them and their children out of poverty. That inevitably leads to more people wanting access to things we have in the West and take for granted, and why shouldn't it? But that leads to more global consumption. If all global resources were more equally shared out then there would be enough for everyone to live fairly comfortably. But that would mean no billionnaires, no private jets, no multi trillion dollar companies. In other words, it just won't happen. We would need some kind of global dictatorship

I am constantly thinking of our planet, and the poor animals, and people caught up in this climate crisis. Pointless wars for greed and money, at the expense of innocent lives I emailed my local MP about our climate challenges, I didn't even get a reply.

It makes me want to SCREAM, and cry in despair. It makes me want to do far worse than that…

Drill for oil in thr Great Barrier Reef, sure. Cut down the Brazilian Amazon, sure. It’s disgusting!

I hate it! I don't understand why we don't overthrow our governments, because yes a majority of politicians and fat cats are psychos who are only for themselves, their rich friends, & the dollar. We see this everyday, corporations & the elite with tax breaks & having no accountability.

It's not even just about the climate, it's about greed. Look at the poor workers in Dubai, whose passports have been taken away & end up slaves. We are in 2024.

We have to overthrow our governments, because they're not representing us, the majority in reality.

When did we stop protesting? When did we let govs get away with everything? Why is everyone so bloody complacent?

The planet is dynamic and the climate changes naturally, so even eradication of the human race won’t stop climate change-the issue is we are speeding it up. Greenhouse or hothouse earth is when there are no permanent icecaps-which is where we are heading (more rapidly)

So no one is saying trying to make changes is futile.

We can’t force others to change but we can lead by example. Or just do the right thing because it’s the right thing rather than what we are doing now which is granting licenses for new oil extraction. Idiotic greed. Make my blood boil if I dwell in it too much.

I totally agree with you. All the current wars make my heart hurt for so many reasons, this is maybe not the biggest one but I think about it too. What a horrendous waste. Lives, buildings, infrastructure, wasted. We still have to do our little parts though for the environment, it all adds up even if it feels futile.

We are pathetically apathetic.

I have been reading about the women of Greenham Common. Bloody hero’s but dear god what sacrifices. The suffragettes. I love Radical Tea Towels for highlighting just what can happen when the people come together in protest.

I can’t quite believe we haven’t had a revolution the way people have been treated.

The thing is, if the human race were to spontaneously combust the Earth would also carry on the same. I think talking about ' saving the planet' is unhelpful in a way, becsuse if the only way to ' save the planet' is to eradicate humans, then why not go all out and burn all the fossil fuels so we all choke to death? Or let diseases rip through populations, or have massive wars that kill all the young people before they can have children? Earth has been far hotter, the air far more noxious, and it has also been a ball of ice. It will be fine whatever we do to it. Even animals don't have the consciousness to know if there are only 20 of their species on the planet. Species have died out since the beginning of time. What we need to do is keep the planet habitable for human beings because the earth will carry on fine, with or without us. It was here millions of years before us and will probably be here millions of years after us.

I'll never understand why we don't name & shame (or even boycott) more celebrities? Even Greta when she was in the USA spent time with Leo DiCaprio who is always featured on his huge fuel consuming yacht.

The Clooneys are awful. They have homes around the globe and are regularly featured being in NYC one week and Europe the next. Nicole Kidman is another one - back and forth between Australia & Nashville & LA all the time. And of course, she'll think nothing of flying out to dress up and attend a red carpet somewhere, anywhere in the globe. These people use private jets like the rest of us may use a car (I don't own a car). Plenty of others, too many to name!

The Royals. Harry has probably done more US to UK flights in the last couple of years than the average person does in their lifetime.

Nobody seems to call out the rich & famous. Why is that?

Would it need dictatorship? We are responsible for lining the pockets of the very wealthy. We have voted in a Government who allow the rich to hoover up assets and make house buying and wealth accrual out of reach for average people. Whose policies put greed before what’s best for the majority. We buy in to celebrity lifestyle and fund their private jet lifestyle. If all of Taylor Swifts fans boycotted her for a month in protest for her 13 minute jet trip she’d soon change her behaviour. If when our colleagues tell us they are heading off on a plane for a weekend trip we met that with the disdain and judgement it deserves rather than ooohs and aaahs.

Humans are tribal and we want to belong. We go with the herd but it only takes one or two from the herd to go a different way for the rest to follow.

I think we have more power than we realise.

We should. We should name and shame. It should be shameful to take unnecessary flights.

Yes. It’s not about saving the planet. It’s preventing our own extinction. That’s the language that captures what’s at stake.

This is what we can all do;

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/stories/climate-action/amp-index.html