Can we talk about the elephant in the room?

[NeptunaOfTheMermaidBattleSquadron]

I feel like as a society we need to start talking about the elephant in the room when it comes to climate change.

All these green measures being put on individuals are surely being wiped out because of all the bombing. Everywhere. All this war and conflict. No one is looking at the impact on the climate. Everything we're doing seems so trivial and pointless because in the same breath we're sending weapons (often called international aid) thousands of miles.

Then there's the manufacturing for it. The weapons testing. All the jet fuel to send the RAF USAF etc all around the world on bombing sprees. The supplies we're sending all over the place, weapons, medicine, rations... it's mind-boggling to think of the sheer scale of this.

And while we're acknowledging and working on fast fashion, home heating, electricity generation, over use of plastics, overpopulation, traceability etc, we're not even talking about or questioning all these bombs exploding everywhere!

We typically think of MAD as nuclear apocalypse, but surely people refusing to actually engage with each other to the point of forcing the world into something with the carbon footprint of a war (never mind several of them) is the climate change version of MAD. We can't reverse it.

I feel like politicians and diplomats just aren't trying hard enough with this because war is so profitable.

Why aren't just stop oil and all those other activists out there trying to protest the most avoidable thing we're doing with the biggest carbon footprint and pressuring governments to go back to diplomacy instead of treating their people as expendable?

IDK what the answer is but we seriously need to get a handle on this and stop using bombs to make points (they're not very good at it anyway) because of this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68110310

Sorry I just needed a bit of a rant. AIBU that they need to try harder to avoid armed conflicts and solve things like adults for the sake of the planet because the stakes are so much higher than one territory or issue? I haven't had much sleep this week so please explain why IABU if you think I am.

@NeptunaOfTheMermaidBattleSquadron
Some sort of UN resolution banning armed conflicts and forcing people to resolve issues like adults instead of scrapping like kids in a playground would go a long way.

I think that you have summarized it very well in one sentence. Your intentions are correct but the absence of means to in-force them makes the world a very dangerous and unpredictable. There needs to be a huge multi national armed force which could in force UN resolution.

Same with the global warming. What use is it when we voluntarily give up our industry, force whole regions of the country into unemployment and misery just to achieve net zero. We know for sure that steel demand is rising and if we close one plant in Wales there will be two plants build in China and India.

The difference is control. We have no control over Putin and other world dictators like the religious maniacs in the Middle East. They will, if left, keep pursuing their goals of totalitarianism.

We could stand by or we can try to defend free peoples of the world.

Putin doesn't give flying f* about climate change, he's a megalomaniac.

There are many ways for humanity to annihilate itself and at the moment it feels like a race to the finish as to which one will.

YABU to think it's an elephant in the room - noone is ignoring it they just don't have control

YANBU, but you should not worry about it. I'm grateful for anything which counters the Net Zero policy. War is a ridiculous extreme! So I'd rather we had other ways.

Wars are very costly. They make funding NZ even more difficult, but that also makes the good solution - adaptation - more difficult. It's much cheaper than NZ, but we can't afford it so long as we spend so much on NZ.
Wars also illustrate another problem with NZ. If people want to kill each other on the scale of wars, they'll hardly cooperate and sacrifice their standard of living to save their enemies from a hypothetical climate change.

I'll stop going on holiday when the elites stop flying into Davos in their private jets.

I feel hopeless about it all. Wars don't help, but the whole world is set up to use and consume and its finite. And it won't change, as we're too weak and selfish to make any sort of difference until it is too late (and i believe we're past that point anyway).
I deal with it by remaining childless, ignoring the negative news where I can, enjoying nature as much as I can and realizing that before too long I'll be gone and forgotten. I fear for the next generation but for now, I'm now I'm just to trying to live my life and enjoy it for what it is.

Write to putin and express your concerns.

You’re really good at debate aren’t you 🙄

What you mention here in the first paragraph is actually right there in the UN Charter. States are meant to solve their differences at the International Court of Justice. However, I think Stalin might have had his fingers crossed behind his back when he signed the charter.

I used to be a fan of the UN, and I used to get Very Cross Indeed when right-wing American politicians called it a useless talking shop. It still does a lot of good in many areas. But in terms of preventing the biggest military powers doing what they want, it is indeed a useless talking shop, because of the vetoes in the Security Council. Realising that the UN is simply not able to do what most of us were told in primary school that it would do is, I think, part of being a realist about the world.

I stopped worrying about something I can’t control years ago. I do my bit, but also I’m a hypocrite because I drive a car, travel a couple of times a year by plane etc. Collectively we won’t stop until we’ve destroyed the entire planet. That won’t change and will only get worse with the ever increasing population and gas guzzling countries like America, China etc.

Why aren't just stop oil and all those other activists out there trying to protest the most avoidable thing we're doing with the biggest carbon footprint and pressuring

Because they like to cause a huge carbon footprint rather than doing anything meaningful.

Anyone who was around the Dartford crossing during the time that they decided to scale the bridge will understand what havoc they caused not just to motorists but the environment thy supposedly want to save

Of all the reasons to stop war and bombing, the impact on the climate is not the top one..

Everyone stop using the Internet. That would help.

I always wanted to find out which make is used when someone compares an ICE and an EV in terms of emission parity. Let's say your EV finally has as big a carbon footprint as a gas guzzling car after driving it for five years, in a worst case scenario that's half the battery's lifespan. What kind of ICE is used for comparison is what I would like to know.

Honestly could we just have a gaming fight? It's ridiculous these men want bigger d1cks and the only way to do it is through killing people, oppressing people and stealing resources. The impact of which is felt by every living being on this planet.

Pathetic leaders across the world pussy footing around instead of putting them in their boxes.

Why aren't just stop oil and all those other activists out there trying to protest the most avoidable thing we're doing with the biggest carbon footprint and pressuring governments to go back to diplomacy instead of treating their people as expendable?

Why don’t you ask them? They are on social media so put the question to them.

Geologists have very different views on this matter tbh

Pathetic leaders across the world pussy footing around instead of putting them in their boxes

How should leaders put them back in their boxes, dibbydoos?

The problem is the way the news gets reported.
Saw an article a few years ago that said we only had 18 months to save the planet

Pretty sure that article was more than 18 months ago.
According to the article we are firmly heading for disaster and there is nothing we can do about it so given the timeline has passed , why are we bothering.

I think that trying to shock people into action isn’t working because, we have heard it al before and it doesn’t say anything about how the average person can help in any practical way that is going to counter act what people see as bigger countries than ours not giving a toss.
The writers of these articles and governments plan everything as though everyone is middle class with kitchens big enough for 2 or 3 bins and money spare to invest in an electric car

Even things like the Ulez scrappage scheme is only really there for those who fall into certain categories

When they can come up with practical advice that appeals to an 18 year old who likes ordering stuff off Temu and those in dire circumstances living hand to mouth. Then we might have a chance

Add another Elephant called Brexit. The government says that trade lost with our nearest and largest trading partner doesn't matter. Instead we can buy from & sell things to countries that are further away, thus increasing air/sea miles & wasting valuable energy. They say Brexit also means we can get stuff cheaper than we were, due to being able to reduce anti dumping tariffs that protect UK industry from unfair trading. This will all result in the little production we have left going down the pan, which, if our services sector grows as hoped, will mean we will import even more from further away & waste even more energy. However, looks like we have also shot ourselves in the foot on services & soon we won't have the money to consume so much anyway. We might even end up being a cheap manufacture site for the EU to replace less strategically secure metal bashing countries like Turkey, Poland & Romania, that are closer to Iran & Russia.

Not to mention being able to use hormones banned in the EU in our meat production or importing meat from the US and Australia that already use vanned hormones to produce cheap meat that can then be flown to us and put local farmers out of business.

I agree with this. Too much '10 years to the end of the world' stuff over 30 years. People then just think ' what's the point?' And stupid stunts by Just Stop Oil where a load of wealthy pensioners and trust fund kids alienate people getting to work without offering any kind of solution to the problem of what you do if you ' just stop oil'.They would be better off training to fit cavity wall and roof insulation, because there aren't enough people to do that. We need more of the benefits of moving to renewable snd publicity about the people coming up with solutions and yes, still, a massive reduction in consumption by those who have the means to do it. Especially from those who spend thrir time telling poor people what to do when they don't do it themselves. And re: temu, more emphasis on reading, charity shops, ebay etc instead of buying more crap off Temu.

1. You cannot bargain with atmospheric physics 😂
2. It’s always someone else’s responsibility to ‘do something’ isn’t it?

Why don’t YOU come up with practical advice that appeals to an 18 year old who likes ordering stuff off Temu?

As previous poster said

Ebay, Charity Shops etc

Learn to sew and make your own fashion.

Pretty sure if you could get the latest lot of celebrities to advertise the idea of recycling fashion and reigniting the idea of made in the Uk as a plus then people would follow.
I also think we need to promote the idea of buying quality

I have clothes from the 1980s. Which if I put on EBay I could now buy a small car with the profits
I wonder in 40 years what the cheap tat people are buying now could buy

This is the message to get across to people

Agree. The fashion industry as a whole is an absolute environmental disaster. They need to do much, much more. But they don't want to, because they would rather sell more stuff at a massive profit. And its not just the Primark's of this world. High fashion labels could do more, but don't. Big organisations could make items that last more than 5 minutes, but again, would rather ramp up profits from constantly manufacturing cheap crap that falls apart, so you have to buy more.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way round. The reason why young people buy the way they buy is because of sophisticated marketing methods perfected since the 1950s - it is this which needs to change.

It is government action which is needed, globally, international agreements, as well as different countries reviewing their own practices. But there needs to be balance. A market economy but within reason. Introducing regulations which stop corporations from producing throwaway clothes, toys, electrical items. Stopping the intentional short life in electrical items. Reviewing the consequences of the loss of manufacturing in the UK and what can be done to counter this now for the UK.

Difficult to achieve but possible. There have been recent successes in relation to sea farming, I think it was ensuring 30 percent of the ocean bed is protected.

I think just trying to change how young people (or any people) think is too little too late and "consumer power" was a misleading concept made up by marketing departments of huge companies. Some sort of change from above is needed in relation to sophisticated marketing aimed at maintaining the throwaway culture.

But going back to the original question, look at profits made by arms manufacturers. No strong ethical arm holds things back now. Most conflicts are driven by money and power concerns, those who have too much wanting more. What to do about that?