Can we talk about the elephant in the room?

[NeptunaOfTheMermaidBattleSquadron]

I feel like as a society we need to start talking about the elephant in the room when it comes to climate change.

All these green measures being put on individuals are surely being wiped out because of all the bombing. Everywhere. All this war and conflict. No one is looking at the impact on the climate. Everything we're doing seems so trivial and pointless because in the same breath we're sending weapons (often called international aid) thousands of miles.

Then there's the manufacturing for it. The weapons testing. All the jet fuel to send the RAF USAF etc all around the world on bombing sprees. The supplies we're sending all over the place, weapons, medicine, rations... it's mind-boggling to think of the sheer scale of this.

And while we're acknowledging and working on fast fashion, home heating, electricity generation, over use of plastics, overpopulation, traceability etc, we're not even talking about or questioning all these bombs exploding everywhere!

We typically think of MAD as nuclear apocalypse, but surely people refusing to actually engage with each other to the point of forcing the world into something with the carbon footprint of a war (never mind several of them) is the climate change version of MAD. We can't reverse it.

I feel like politicians and diplomats just aren't trying hard enough with this because war is so profitable.

Why aren't just stop oil and all those other activists out there trying to protest the most avoidable thing we're doing with the biggest carbon footprint and pressuring governments to go back to diplomacy instead of treating their people as expendable?

IDK what the answer is but we seriously need to get a handle on this and stop using bombs to make points (they're not very good at it anyway) because of this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68110310

Sorry I just needed a bit of a rant. AIBU that they need to try harder to avoid armed conflicts and solve things like adults for the sake of the planet because the stakes are so much higher than one territory or issue? I haven't had much sleep this week so please explain why IABU if you think I am.

The idea of fighting climate change while China merrily builds more and more coal fired power stations just seems absolutely pointless to me. There are currently 256 coal fired power stations in Europe. In China there are 1142 and they are currently approving two new plants every week.

I agree OP and saw the same article and almost started a thread. I feel so exasperated with humans.

cutting down on or quitting unnecessary flights is an easy win. No one NEEDS a holiday. It’s a luxury.

Yes but they are also building wind and solar. It’s not simplistic and binary.
Planetary CO2, and methane, is higher than it’s been for 10,000 years - most of recent human evolution - and is rising much more rapidly than natural processes (moving away from an ice age) would change it. We don’t know the impact that will have on plants, animals, crops, food supplies, not to mention dramatic weather events. 2023 was the hottest year on record. This is real and although the effects will be unevenly distributed, some of them will still ripple through societies and economies.
Despite “China” every fraction of a degree of warming we can prevent, is still valuable and worth while, in terms of avoiding more adaptation, rebuilding, or whatever we need to do after disastrous events. Major studies like Lord Deben’s reports and the IPCC pathways show it is cheaper to avoid disastrous climate change than adapt now. And a lot of changes are free - you can adapt your diet (you don’t have to give up meat and dairy, just reduce it); walk more; buy a car with a small engine; have fewer (not zero) children. All you libertarians out there can have your personal freedom - all that is required is a lack excess and permanent growth.
Everyone can contribute, and it’s not miserable and negative. The only part that is miserable is if you and your family are the ones in floods or wildfires. It’s just as easy to change your consumption as it is to moan about hoaxes.

China are investing massively in renewables. We should be doing the same. Instead we are agreeing to more oil extraction which will do nothing to help us in the UK.

Yes. I wonder what the carbon footprint of ammunition's, bombs, military planes and vehicles and so on is.

You’re absolutely correct. Tipping point has been passed a long time ago. It’s going to get worse and very sadly the suffering of future generations will be immense.

We can still limit it. That’s what the science points to. Surely we may as well try?

Yeah if only people would consider the impact on the environment when they're bombing countries back to the stone ages

Yes - it can be limited, slowed down but unfortunately I don’t think that’s enough. It will just be a case of prolonging the agony. Unless something huge happens that shocks the whole world and those in power into immediate action there’s no hope for this planet. It’s desperately sad.

I remember in the 80s learning songs about caring for animals and the planet, we were told not to waste paper so that trees weren’t cut down, yet things carried on and got worse. In the 90s we learnt about cfc gases and the hole in the ozone layer, we tried to recycle what we could. In the 00s and onwards my own dc were learning about global warming and pollution but progress to address these issues is slow and never enough.

In some ways I hope I’m wrong and that it can all be rectified but being realistic I think we are on a fast track to catastrophe.

I don't think people will care about climate change until it really starts to affect them directly. I worked in two care homes and no one recycled, switched off plugs or turned off lights after leaving a room and cranked the heating up leaving doors and windows open . Everything was tumble dried even on a roasting hot day . Dish washer were run half full and food waste was appalling . I bet other care homes were the same.

In the article it says we can still have an impact. We all need to;

• talk about it more
• engage politically
• cut our own carbon footprint in whatever way possible.

I don’t think the ‘we are all doomed’ rhetoric is helpful at all. It gives people the go ahead to continue as they are. Which is madness.

I agree that we could still limit it. "We" being the whole planet. Good luck getting Putin on board with that. Or India. Or China. Any one of which in isolation will pump out more greenhouse gas than the planet can cope with. Don't get me wrong, there is an infinitesimally small chance that the minority doing its bit will make a difference, so we should continue to try, even if it enables us to have the moral high ground and look the next generation in the eye and say "I did my best".

That, of course, would mean we give up our cars, our foreign holidays, etc. Putting the odd thing in the recycling doesn't really cut the mustard.

Having no offspring is much more effective

Population - but it’s taboo.
38% think YABU - people don’t want to be affected, don’t want to cut back on anything. The vast majority of the public wouldn’t change their daily activities for even one day of the week.
We are running out of time / may have already gone beyond tipping point.
There will be wars, there will be fighting over land, food etc. We have stopped evolving. We’re like a plague of cockroaches consuming everything.
It reminds me of the movie, Don’t look up. It’s too late, thankfully I’ll be long gone before the shit hits the fan.

What will the planet look like in 100/200 years for regular folk? 🤔 bloody shit I bet.

I think it’s hard for many to suppress a consumerist lifestyle but having fewer dc is happening generally

I’d keep going with that and hopefully some equilibrium will emerge

Well , that’s human selfishness unfortunately- we know that we aren’t doomed right now but future generations will be it comes down to whether people love themselves and their life right now or want to make sacrifices now for those in the future . I think too many people are selfish and care only about themselves. Changing the mindset of the whole population isn’t possible.

I reckon the real elephant in the room Is how many trucks on the roads are just full of waste. Waste being moved from one place to another to be shredded, sorted, packaged up, sent to landfill or shipped across the world. Incredible numbers of waste trucks on the roads of the UK. As a species we are incredibly heavy consumers and polluters of all kinds of resources, and we need to halve the world population, but in a way that it doesn't totally destabilise our economic systems.

However much nobody in their right mind wants war, stopping wars and allowing dictators and sadistic terror regimes to take over is not what will save the planet or humanity.

David Attenborough's A Life on Our Planet was brilliant.

I would also like to see an experiment where only women can be in national leadership roles for the next 30 years. Men have had their turn and it's not going great.

The elephant in the room is China. If our elites really believed in climate change and that it was a clear and present danger to the existence of the planet, we would at the very least be ceasing all trade with China. If not, going to war with them to stop their earth destroying industrial emissions. But no, we keep deindustrialising in the west and importing ever more from China. China, like Mordor, just destroys more and more of its nature and pumps endless CO2 into the atmosphere. No one seems to question this.

Occam's razor would say perhaps our leaders don't believe climate change is the big issue they say it is. A bit like that event in 2020 that everyone wants to pretend never happened.

We can’t control other people or other countries. We can only do what we can do. Be the change you want to see in the world.

I disagree. I think we can all;

Talk to each other about rather than ignoring it.
Engage politically in whatever way possible.
Cut our own carbon footprint as much as possible.
Be a conscious consumer - including engagement with celebrity.

We were getting there in the UK until the pandemic shifted us off course.

All the guilt is put on the individual. If Government policy was to stop production of all the harmful things, we wouldn't be in this mess.

It is all lip service, while the polluters reap all the benefit, with a lovely backhander to MP's via lobby groups etc.

If a bath is overflowing, you don't start bailing it out, you turn off the tap.

I actually hope you are right , I really do

I’m a sustainability manager and I’m not going to lie I think about this every morning before work. However……

Green measures aren’t just about the environment. If we did it properly it would have a positive impact on our economy, alleviate fuel poverty, positive impacts upon health etc. this is the issue people need to expand their understanding as to the benefits of sustainability.

yes war will create carbon emissions, but seeing as those countries have had their industry , businesses wiped out then perhaps it balances out somewhat.

it’s a very giving up attitude too. Surely we want to wars to end. If we all stop doing these green measures we will be in a worse situation once the wars do end.

as individuals there is only so much that you can do. Evs are expensive. Energy efficiency measures are expensive. But there is so much that you can do and there’s so much influence that you can have. Don’t sit there moaning that the government isn’t doing this and the other get in contact with them… regularly. Don’t sit there moaning about packaging and then continue to buy from that retailer. You don’t need to follow your social media influencers and buy all the tit tat that they promote. Pick up the phone to your energy company and ask if you can get on a renewable contract. Don’t get sucked into the need to be vegan but look up impact of beef production…. If everyone reduced their meat consumption by even one day it would make an impact.

We are the carbon they want to eradicate 😉

"you will own nothing and be happy"

Enjoy eating bugs.

Its a really boring topic. The politicians and the experts can deal with it. I'm not that interested tbh. What about the threat of a world war. Thats far more worrying.