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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not do Safeguarding training?

481 replies

Sausagenbacon · 06/02/2024 13:21

I belong to a church, and occasionally serve coffee at the end of the service. I am being asked to take Safeguarding training, which I think is utterly pointless.
I have expressed this and been told that it's policy, and I have to do it.
AIBU to just stop doing coffee?

OP posts:
SwordToFlamethrower · 08/02/2024 09:45

When I was at secondary school, I used to freeze up. I'm talking periods of stillness and silence.

Other kids would prod me and laugh at me. A few times, a kid would alert a teacher and the teacher would laugh at me as well. And walk away.

I was being abused by my step dad.

No one ever got help for me.

Subtle signs were missed because I was a fawner and a "good girl" who just tried not to cause trouble.

I was just the quiet, quirky girl.

Could you spot these signs? Could you?

SwordToFlamethrower · 08/02/2024 09:48

"Hello love, I'm being abused by my carers love! Thanks for the coffee"

Is literally not how abuse is disclosed 99.9% of the time.

starlight889 · 08/02/2024 10:07

Drdoomish · 08/02/2024 07:14

As an ex senior leader of a church of 500+ and a Director of Safeguarding for a school Academy Trust, I agree it's a pointless request.

I think you may need another job…Imagine being a safeguarding director and not advocating for the most amount of people to be trained.

If you feel like you’re absolutely correct, please disclose your workplace so a complaint can be made.

SnobblyBobbly · 08/02/2024 10:11

It's really just to enhance your own awareness. If for instance you noticed one of the elderly folk being suspiciously bruised, or that they were all of a sudden being escorted by a new 'friend' (both things which I've come across during years of community work) then you reporting that to safeguarding lead at the church could help avoid elder abuse.

If you challenge authority then you should feel especially strongly that vulnerable people need to be protected from those who abuse it...

endofthelinefinally · 08/02/2024 10:11

A bit more safeguarding training among church volunteers might have been helpful in spotting the paedophile who joined the choir and the vicar who was part of a group sharing class 4 photographs of children. Thankfully not in my church, but one ended up in the local papers and the other disappeared before he got caught.

JaneAustensHeroine · 08/02/2024 10:23

LolaSmiles · 08/02/2024 09:12

As an ex senior leader of a church of 500+ and a Director of Safeguarding for a school Academy Trust, I agree it's a pointless request.

It's a little strange that a director of safeguarding wouldn't want to create a culture of vigilance where safeguarding is everyone's responsibility and volunteers know how to safeguard themselves and the people they encounter.

Agree.

TempestTost · 08/02/2024 10:41

@herewegoagainy@TempestTostyou're both focusing a lot on the fact that people in commercial or hospitality settings aren't required to do the training. Like it's not 'fair'.

Again it's like you're seeing the training as a punishment. The more people who do it, the better. I find it bizarre that you would advocate fewer people being trained on how to keep an eye out for abuse in vulnerable people because of a perceived unfairness. It's attitudes like that that make it a box ticking exercise, not the training itself.

It's nothing to do with being fair it's about being proportionate. Not all jobs and roles require first responder training, not all even require first aid. You need to make distinctions.

And logical. You cannot argue it is essential for tea pourers in a volunteer organization to have a course like this, and not Walmart employees. If the latter type of role actually doesn't need it, that means it isn't, in fact, essential.

No one is stopping volunteers, or indeed parishioners, from doing whatever kind of training they want to if it interests them. Ideally really valuable training in that case rather than these 30 minute online things. But not all volunteer roles are equally involved or demanding, and require the same level of involvement.

Serving tea or washing up is a volunteer position that is typically very easy for almost any congregation member to slot into, even at short notice. Including sometimes people who are themselves "vulnerable." In my parish people who sometimes take on that job include parishioners with intellectual disabilities, addicts, people living in tents, or relative newcomers to the parish. These are the same people who the week before would have been standing in the hall talking together drinking the tea. They do not suddenly become more at risk because now one of them is pouring tea or washing spoons. These are not authoritative positions, they are often a way for someone who doesn't have much else concrete to offer to feel like they are giving something rather than being a recipient of the largess of others, or a way for someone shy to be social without the pressure of small talk.

The result of increasing demands like this is that you don't get enough volunteers, and so the event doesn't happen at all, and then there is no one for the vulnerable to chat with while drinking a cup of tea in the first place.

I'd also take issue with the idea that this 30 minute training is having any kind of significant effect in that setting and role. It's not an evidence based claim. More training does not always mean better results, it has to be meaningful, and employed in a setting where there is some context.

You don't get leaders in parishes or other organizations without giving people a chance to integrate into the group in less demanding ways.

herewegoagainy · 08/02/2024 10:51

@Ormally The OP serves coffee after church services and washes up, that is it.

@Pandadunks nobody thinks abuse does not happen in churches or by people working or volunteering for churches.

And all those saying OP is not the kind of person to volunteer are just being nasty.

Blueink · 08/02/2024 11:06

If you’ve done it before then it will just be a refresher surely?

You are in a volunteer role and coming into contact with vulnerable people, presumably you aren’t being asked to do high level safeguarding training, but basic awareness?

You might easily see and hear things in this role, including noticing behaviours, noticing bruising and you are there regularly to observe changes over time.

Don’t volunteer if you don’t want to update OP, that’s your choice as you said.

Drdoomish · 08/02/2024 11:12

LolaSmiles · 08/02/2024 09:12

As an ex senior leader of a church of 500+ and a Director of Safeguarding for a school Academy Trust, I agree it's a pointless request.

It's a little strange that a director of safeguarding wouldn't want to create a culture of vigilance where safeguarding is everyone's responsibility and volunteers know how to safeguard themselves and the people they encounter.

There is a huge difference between creating a safeguarding culture and training everyone within an inch of their life.

herewegoagainy · 08/02/2024 11:13

@Drdoomish I totally agree. This is a tick box exercise.

ludocris · 08/02/2024 11:25

@Drdoomish how do you create a safeguarding culture without giving people basic information about safeguarding (which is what this training is)?

And how on gods green earth is an hour long training course 'training people to within an inch of their lives'?

Beenthroughit · 08/02/2024 12:21

Not quite sure why the comparison with someone working in Costa say to someone doing coffee at church, a person at church is seen as a representative of the church rightly or wrongly, whereas a member of the congregation is not.
I've had both online and in person safeguarding training at church (and as a hospital volunteer) and even though it has touched on things I'm not currently volunteering for, I've actually found them useful in my life outside.
Often being a tea volunteer is a first step to doing a bit more as a volunteer, so good to know a bit more about them before talking about doing other things and knowing that they have some of the very basic training is good from that point of view and knowing that they won't do training will wave a red flag for different roles. Being there week after week and being nice to people I can see is a great way in for someone with less than good intentions. It happens that people do use church roles to pick out vulnerable people, and if their DBS came back clear if they asked about a different role all that means is there are no concerns recorded.
If the only thing someone takes from it is how to safely raise a concern without putting the person in danger then it's worthwhile

QueenBean22 · 08/02/2024 12:26

Seems a bit much for a volunteer role. How long will it take and will you have to pay for training yourself?

Mauhea · 08/02/2024 12:35

As someone who works in Safeguarding for the Church of England (and hasn't read the full thread, apologies!) - please do your training.

You likely only need to complete the basic course which can be done online and is about 30 minutes of your time. You can even step away and come back to it if you want.

The reason we ask is because people like you are absolutely vital to our churches. You are another pair of eyes and ears keeping people safe. You don't 'just serve coffee' - you're a familiar face that members of your congregation are going to come to know and trust and they might even come to the point where they need to share information with someone and you're the one they're most comfortable with. Or you might see one of your familiar attendees looking more out of sorts one day.

The training helps you to know what to look for and helps you to pass the right information on to the right people right away. It's worth doing, I promise. And in most churches you only have to do it once every three years - so you won't be nudged about it again for a good long while!

herewegoagainy · 08/02/2024 12:36

@Beenthroughit being there week after week is a good way for someone with ill intention to groom vulnerable people after they have attended a 90 minute safeguarding course. It does nothing to prevent this happening.

ZsaZsaTheCat · 08/02/2024 12:51

Felicia19 · 06/02/2024 14:06

The OP is handing cups of coffee to elderly people.
I can see the point of safeguarding training when children are involved, but it's ridiculous to expect anyone to get involved in safeguarding when it's coffee after a church service.
I would refuse the training and stop volunteering.

What if whilst handing out a cup of coffee to an elderly person, they find the courage to share something about their home sitaution with you?
Also, they might not share anything but training gives you a great insight into signs of abuse that you might not otherwise pick up on.
You may think you are a small, irrelevant cog but please look at the bigger picture. I am literally shocked at your attitude.

ludocris · 08/02/2024 12:55

herewegoagainy · 08/02/2024 12:36

@Beenthroughit being there week after week is a good way for someone with ill intention to groom vulnerable people after they have attended a 90 minute safeguarding course. It does nothing to prevent this happening.

That's not what it's about though, is it? It's not aimed at preventing people abusing others themselves - there are other safeguards for that.

Itsdifferentnow · 08/02/2024 13:19

herewegoagainy · 08/02/2024 12:36

@Beenthroughit being there week after week is a good way for someone with ill intention to groom vulnerable people after they have attended a 90 minute safeguarding course. It does nothing to prevent this happening.

Just as being in the Police teaches you how to avoid getting caught when you commit crime... However, there are other trained people around you who could well grow suspicious of behaviour that seems like grooming. We have to hope so anyway.

HipHop63 · 08/02/2024 13:23

JaneAustensHeroine · 08/02/2024 10:23

Agree.

As an ex senior leader of a church of 500+ and a Director of Safeguarding for a school Academy Trust, I agree it's a pointless request.

I am flabbergasted at this. I used to work on a LADO team and although that revolved around referrals made by, or on behalf of, a child against someone in a position of trust I was still aware that anyone working with adults would also require a similar level of safeguarding training. You might feel like it is dotting the 'I's' and crossing the 'T's' but it is more than that.

It is important that safeguarding is seen in broad terms that extend beyond abuse-related concerns. As such, safeguarding can be understood as ‘acting in ways that mitigate any risk of harm’. There may be concerns about the safety and wellbeing of an individual which are not linked to abuse by another but are still on the safeguarding continuum. This might be to do with personal conditions or contextual circumstances; for example, poor mental health, homelessness and rough sleeping, suicidal thoughts, dementia and poverty. It is important to remember that safeguarding is as much about prevention as reaction, and so also covers risk assessment of environments and activities, anything that will help contribute to keeping people safe. This means that the types of safeguarding incidents which are most prevalent may be different according to the Church setting, be that a cathedral, parish or religious community.https://www.churchofengland.org/safeguarding/safeguarding-e-manual/safeguarding-children-young-people-and-vulnerable-adults/1

Itsdifferentnow · 08/02/2024 13:26

Felicia 19 I used to give lifts to my friends to attend a mid week Church group. They were all elderly. It was not long before two of them started to tell me a lot about their lives. They had suffered depression and trauma. If they were still under any threat I would have been told. Fortunately, although retired I have a professional background that enables me to understand what to do and how to handle these things.

Never assume that you will be seen as 'just' the person who hands out the drinks or turns up to help.
Read Mauhea's post above.

Twentyfirstcenturymumma · 08/02/2024 13:35

Mauhea · 08/02/2024 12:35

As someone who works in Safeguarding for the Church of England (and hasn't read the full thread, apologies!) - please do your training.

You likely only need to complete the basic course which can be done online and is about 30 minutes of your time. You can even step away and come back to it if you want.

The reason we ask is because people like you are absolutely vital to our churches. You are another pair of eyes and ears keeping people safe. You don't 'just serve coffee' - you're a familiar face that members of your congregation are going to come to know and trust and they might even come to the point where they need to share information with someone and you're the one they're most comfortable with. Or you might see one of your familiar attendees looking more out of sorts one day.

The training helps you to know what to look for and helps you to pass the right information on to the right people right away. It's worth doing, I promise. And in most churches you only have to do it once every three years - so you won't be nudged about it again for a good long while!

Excellent post, thank you!

Itsdifferentnow · 08/02/2024 13:35

JaneAustensHeroine · 06/02/2024 19:33

An opportunity for learning is never wasted. You might learn something that benefits not only someone at Church but a friend, a family member, a neighbour or even yourself…

By all means though chuck in the voluntary work if you can’t be arsed but you’ll probably find that if you want to volunteer again elsewhere the same conditions will apply.

Wisdom! Absolutely agree.

Surely if you want to help by doing the coffee, you'll be happy to learn this to make sure you are even more useful if the need arises?

JaneAustensHeroine · 08/02/2024 13:36

I agree with you @HipHop63

TooBored1 · 08/02/2024 13:38

Sausagenbacon · 07/02/2024 11:10

Lots of older people will have been on many safeguarding courses.
This - I have already been on a SG course at the church. OK, several years ago, but I can't see why I have to do it again.

Because generally SG training has a shelf life? I have to repeat mine on a regular basis.