to not do Safeguarding training?

[Sausagenbacon]

I belong to a church, and occasionally serve coffee at the end of the service. I am being asked to take Safeguarding training, which I think is utterly pointless.
I have expressed this and been told that it's policy, and I have to do it.
AIBU to just stop doing coffee?

@PeppermintMandy exactly the whole point of the training !

@Juni11 totally agree 👍

This is just some short basic training to let you know signs to look out for, how to respond without saying anything that will prejudice safeguarding action and who to tell. I really don't see the big deal about refreshing yourself

But op maybe the one who hears the conversation, sees the injury or watches somebody hurting someone or touching inappropriately ....it maybe her superior or safeguarding officer doing harm or breaking down.
How will she know the subtle signs that need passing to someone else?
Are you the same about abuse outside....well it's the teachers job, the neighbour the other side must hear more etc?

@jannier all of those examples are not subtle signs.
It is a tick box exercise. I have been volunteering for adults for years and never once had to raise a concern about safeguarding. I am not in a role where I am talking to people for more than a few minutes, so not someone people would disclose to.

I can see why it seems rather irrelevant to your role of serving coffee, mainly to the elderly, but churches, schools and other institutions have really had no choice but to write robust safeguarding policies and procedures, and the mandatory training for volunteers is a small price to pay for addressing this. It really isn’t an onerous or time-consuming course. It’s just a little of your time. I’d say do it, and keep on serving the coffee.

@Landlubber2019 Sorry to hear this and you are exactly right that is the point of safeguarding training to recognise something that may be untoward x

I have not read the whole thread , but much of it and feel so much is " worthy". Context is probably appropriate here. If I volunteered after my church service to give out coffees and generally help my vicar and his wife extend the day and more for the community/ largely elderly I would not expect to be then asked extra of me . Certainly not training. This is kindness and not " oh I volunteer - aren't I great ". If you are volunteering for people you don't know and they are outside your community- yes, I think training is a good thing .

If the church's policy is that everyone in contact with (possibly) vulnerable people does their safeguarding training then you either do it or stop volunteering with them. If you have done similar training before it's a shame you think it's pointless.

everything else is so basic and just common sense.

It may be common sense to you, who have done annual training and worked with people for years and years, but it isn't for adults without that background.

As well as doing my own safeguarding training regularly over the years, (for 3 different organisations in the same year sometimes), I was responsible for arranging / facilitating Safeguarding training for many volunteers for a few years, so would be 'around in the background / unlocking and locking up / making the tea etc). Believe me, there are a LOT of adults for whom things I think are pretty basic common sense, really aren't. Hence, having a policy that everyone volunteering does a training session.
On-line obviously easier to access and much quicker and easier to do, but F2F never fails to generate discussion. I've never facilitated a course where someone hasn't said "I never thought about that - I do that all the time" type conversations. Really great to start people thinking with examples of subtle worries.

If you see your job as ‘just there to serve coffee’, the job is wasted on you. Can you not see how there’s so much more to it than ‘just serving coffee, especially from an elderly person’s perspective?

You may be the only person that they interact with that day, making you of great significance to them. Are you not able to see the privileged position that would put you in?

You’d be there to show compassion, give them your time, notice anything about them that could be a safeguarding issue and to know how to act on your concerns. How could you do that properly without the training and the right innate qualities?

I think you need to make way for someone with caring skills, someone who would appreciate the opportunity.

@shakeshakeshake11 have you been to church? The job IS just to serve coffee. There are other people who welcome and talk to people.
All these volunteers do is make tea and coffee, serve it at a hatch or table and then wash up. There is usually a queue so no time to chat to people. That is someone elses job.

If it is everyone's responsibility then everyone should do it means, if it is everyone's responsibility, then everyone should do the training.

It isn't. Hence not everyone does the training.

I've been on many safeguarding courses and the crux of it is, there are so many signs that you are not qualified to diagnose, so if something feels off, then refer, to the safeguarding officer, as previously mentioned.

One course didn't even give that advice, they had to email at the end to say 'oh we meant to give you this vital piece of information'.

It is a box ticking exercise that organisations use when they 'learn lessons'. If you volunteer to hand out coffee you should not be in the dock for not flagging an issue if something happens when the powers that be send the shit rolling down the hill saying 'well, they went on the training'. That's not good enough IMHO.

She isn't a councillor, or therapist. She hands people drinks. If she sees a bruise, refer it. If she sees or hears anything out of the norm, refer it. That's all anyone needs to do.

Given church history safeguarding really is everyone’s concern. The basic level safeguarding course is miles away from the leadership safeguarding course. It just covers the very core basics for those who undertake any volunteer roles within a church that MIGHT bring you into contact with either children OR adults who may have vulnerabilities. The leadership course makes me go gnnghh…but I accept it’s needed. the basic courses do give you the confidence to refer to your nominated safeguarding officer if you see something or hear something that might be a safeguarding concern.

Your role brings you into contact with older adults and sadly such can have hidden vulnerabilities or age vulnerabilities can lead to elder abuse issues so asking you to undertake a basic SG course makes sense. Most are good for three years unless changes in law require an update.

I was at a church safeguarding training session last year. The younger generation were completely on board and fully participating. I noticed that the older people in the room were not participating at all, and then asked questions that, if they had been listening would have known the answers.

Lots of older people will have been on many safeguarding courses.

Oh come on! It's handing out bloody drinks in a church! Next you'll be saying that you need safeguarding training to have a stall at a car boot sale 🙄 I'd absolutely understand and agree if it was a role thats more involved but OP just hands out cups of coffee?
The world has gone mad

OP stand your ground. This is nonsense

Exactly this!!
I'm not sure how many pp on here have actually ever done it but it's not a time for chatting with 'the elderly' (patronising eh?).

You literally don't have a moment to look up, never mind chat, and most, if not all, the customers then go and chat to other people. It's kind of the point of staying for coffee. So they need the safeguarding training too. And then the congregation dwindles further.

Safeguarding in church settings was primarily intended to make sure no one was ever left alone with one other person. The reasons don't need explanation.

But now, as a pp described, insurance is often the driver and insurance companies can make whatever demands they want apparently. And safeguarding training is a nice earner for someone.
It reminds me of the 'training days' I had to sit through as a teacher, being told the bleedingly obvious whilst the 'trainer' charged a ridiculous fee.

Money. It's all anything ever boils down to

So you believe that elderly people are never abused?
As PPs have posted, they're better off without you (although with most organised religion there's probably loads of abuse going on and being covered up, don't stand still or they'll make you a bishop).

Only reasonable reason to object is if the training is based purely on safeguarding children.

@Hobnobswantshernameback well she would give then a cup of tea!

I volunteer at a local church (have done safeguarding and have current DBS).

@Sausagenbacon quite rightly says, most of the people at weekday coffee mornings are elderly but we also get young mums. We also have some regulars who are vulnerable because of mental ill health, learning difficulties, physical illness and disabilities, homelessness or addiction well as the occasional asylum seeker or refugee. Not to mention people who are lonely because they are new to the area, bereaved or have no other support network.

It can be boring sitting in front of a screen ticking the boxes but if it helps alert us to situations where someone needs help or extra support it's invaluable. Recognising those situations and giving aid is an important part of being a Christian (or indeed most faiths).

@AlisonDonut but who do you mean by 'everyone'? All members of the public? How would that be enforceable??

The training is made available to and/or required of people whose job, whether paid or voluntary, puts them in contact with potentially vulnerable people. Not every job, as a PP has pointed out, but roles where people might come into contact with individuals at risk.

The 'safeguarding is everyone's responsibility' message is a simple way of saying 'don't assume that someone else will notice or take action. If you think someone may be at risk, do something.'

Not sure whether it was you who suggested that someone like the OP could be hauled over the coals for not noticing something, but that's a ridiculous suggestion. Safeguarding training is about trying to ensure everyone is aware of and understands the need to report potential safeguarding risks, not about giving people additional responsibilities.

The more people who know about this, the better. How anyone could see this as a pointless activity is beyond me.

I wouldn't do it just to hand coffee out, unless every person that attended the church had been told todo it aswell since safeguarding is everyone's responsibility.

It isn't enforceable. That's the point when people say 'safeguarding is everyone's responsibility'.

And there is very good reason why everyone shouldn't do it. It's like when abusers use what they learn on these courses to cover their tracks and work out what isn't going to raise a red flag.

It shouldn't be used as a tick box exercise, which this obviously is.