Could autism be caused by lack of sleep?

[sharptoothlemonshark]

I don't mean the disrupted sleep all babies and toddlers put their parents through, I mean serious sleep deprivation at an early age. Or deprivation of one type of sleep.

With everything we now know of the need for adequate sleep for brain development, it makes sense that babies who do not get enough are not going to develop normally neurologically.

And many parents with children who have serious ASD report MASSIVE lack of sleep, well beyond normal

Anybody have any insights into this link? Which way round is the cause and effect? or could it be a vicious circle?

YABU - no, asd cannot be caused by lack of sleep/ my autistic child always slept well etc

YANBU - my autistic child was sleep deprived/ there might be a causal link between lack of sleep and going on to develop ASD

Given there are 6 ASD/ADHD people in my immediate family Kids, sisters, half brother) and not one was born by C -section (or prematurely, or of older/obese/unhealthy mothers), I’d say this was rubbish. Of course, statistically there may be a higher incidence of C section births amongst individuals later identified as being on the autism spectrum does not mean casualty.

The JAMA study you reference was a singe study carried out in 2013 (ie, its findings have not been replicated since) that noted that C-section babies were 23% more likely to be identified with ASD later. This warrants further investigation for a nuanced interpretation of the implications of those findings, because there MAY be factors within these findings that are useful for obstetric settings. For instance, in the 23% instances were there other family members who were ASD - specifically were the mothers ASD and, if so, are ASD mothers more likely to need/want a C section over a natural birth?

This is just one line of enquiry I would wish to explore were I a scientist investigating this topic.

But is that cause, effect, or comorbidity?

Possibly a mix?

Accordingly to one group working in the area, in some cases the stress of prematurity on a developing baby’s brain may work together with a “biological vulnerability” (ie genetic risk factors) to increase the likelihood of autism In other words they think that, in at least some cases, prematurity causes extra 'stress' that leads a developing brain to autism...but how likely this is depends on the child's genetic makeup.

Autism risk increases for every additional week of prematurity. Many other pregnancy related factors are also thought to contribute to the chance a child develops autism.

Autism isn’t caused by lack of sleep. My DS is diagnosed autistic and ADHD, he was a dream sleeper and slept through from 6 weeks. I didn’t understand how people found having a baby so hard!!

However, I do wonder if abnormal sleep patterns can indicate autism or neurodivergence. Anecdotally, a lot of parents of neurodivergent children indicate that their child was either a fantastic or terrible sleeper.

Now that I understand neurodivergence I can see it all over mine and ex-DPs family. I suspect ex-DP is autistic and I have ADHD. It was very common for females to remain undiagnosed in the 90s.

Do you have evidence to support the idea that autism is linked to attachment difficulties? Anecdotally I have known loads of parents who were sleep deprived but whose child was not subsequently diagnosed with autism.

@Flowers4me Oh no, not the refrigerator mum suggestion again. 🙄

I know @Morellaree!!

Yep, its getting tedious.

@ElonsPsychic why do you state something you completely made up, have no evidence or causal proof of as an absolute fact?

My bet is that @ElonsPsychic doesn’t have any children or family members who are autistic. Otherwise they’d realise how insulting and upsetting it is to suggest you just didn’t love, cuddle and connect with your baby enough.

If we wanted to be really generous to  @ElonsPsychic then we might wonder if they have heard somewhere along the line how similarly attachment disorders and ASD can present and how difficult this differential diagnosis can be for clinicians.

This article
www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-advances/article/autism-and-attachment-disorders-how-do-we-tell-the-difference/138210BBEA4464E256D8FC22BF45BBE2 explains the issue and particularly emphasises that autism “is highly heritable (Waye 2018) and there is no evidence that it is caused by abuse and neglect (Mayes 2019). Even the ‘quasi-autism’ described in children who experienced extreme deprivation in Romanian orphanages appeared to be more indicative of DSED [disinhibited social engagement disorder] as the children grew older (Kreppner 2010).”

That being said, I am not really inclined to generosity in response to ‘hot and unpopular takes’.

FFS is this abhorrent thread still here?

Countless people have reported it for ableism.

It seems that MNHQ doesn't care if disabled people are told they shouldn't have been born.

@TheShellBeach am assuming MN think some of the replies will educate the ableist posters?

Think the OP’s belief that individuals ‘go on to develop’ ASD is pretty insulting and uneducated in its suggestion that ASD is something you can prevent, probably by not having childhood vaccinations too 🤦🏽‍♀️ as well as supposedly shite mothering. It’s as if we haven’t already spent most of our children’s lives riddled with guilt and asking if we did something wrong or passed on something genetically and wishing we could make their lives easier in a profoundly judgemental and ableist world.

In hindsight, there were so many indicators of my children’s ASD from infancy (colic crying for 6-10 hours a day due to the inability to self soothe, failure to latch correctly etc) that, even though it is hard to properly diagnosed ASD in very young children, I’d argue the evidence is often there from birth. We just haven’t developed a nuanced approach to pre-screening for it.

@BusyMummy001

I think it will be almost impossible to diagnose in infancy, as it’s a spectrum, and traits vary so hugely. My DS was extremely low demand and passive as a baby. He slept from 6 weeks, napped for hours at a time and was just very chilled out. He rarely cried or demanded my attention. He never had a tantrum. Another indicator could be the fact he was very ahead in all of his motor and social milestones and very intelligent, he knew the alphabet, numbers to 100 and spoke in fluent sentences by age 2. He’s still the same, intelligent and chilled boy now (combined with hyperactive ADHD, an interesting mix)!

So although he displayed unusual behaviours, they sound like they are the opposite of your children’s. A lot of parents do report extremes though - either too chilled out like my son, or very demanding like your DC. I find it all very interesting.

@Morellaree you’re so right - my two are chalk and cheese so live on completely different points on the spectrum.

My DS is very chilled, sociable, bright and hopes to go to med school whilst my DD (also ADHD) is emotionally/socially less mature and restarting A levels at 18 as she found 6th form a nightmare. She is staggeringly gifted at art, though, and planning for a BA/MA one day, but just needs more time psychologically to get there. Am usually fairly optimistic for her (though wine helps when my well of hope runs a bit dry…)

Have found there is no ‘autism’ archetype and when people mention their child’s autism I now ask ‘what does that look like/feel like for them’ rather than impose any template I’ve built up from books or even my own kids. Knowing this, it should follow that there can’t really be any definite early diagnostic tool and that even if things such as very early crawling (4m)/walking (8m) or colic/inability to self-sooth raised flags for a HV, I’m not even sure what additional support this generate … and it might just make mums/parents super anxious even earlier.

@BusyMummy001My DS is very chilled, sociable, bright and hopes to go to med school whilst my DD (also ADHD) is emotionally/socially less mature and restarting A levels at 18 as she found 6th form a nightmare. She is staggeringly gifted at art, though, and planning for a BA/MA one day, but just needs more time psychologically to get there. Am usually fairly optimistic for her (though wine helps when my well of hope runs a bit dry…)

Our DS is both those at the same time. Someone who knows him once said "I don't know if he's very intense in a laid back kind of way, or very laid back in an intense kind of way?"

If you knew him you'd totally get that.

@Daftasabroom love that - made me laugh!

Fuck. Off.

Autism and ADHD are genetic, they're not something that people can cause or prevent. Ill-educated nonsense like this makes life harder for those of us who are neurodiverse.