Could autism be caused by lack of sleep?

[sharptoothlemonshark]

I don't mean the disrupted sleep all babies and toddlers put their parents through, I mean serious sleep deprivation at an early age. Or deprivation of one type of sleep.

With everything we now know of the need for adequate sleep for brain development, it makes sense that babies who do not get enough are not going to develop normally neurologically.

And many parents with children who have serious ASD report MASSIVE lack of sleep, well beyond normal

Anybody have any insights into this link? Which way round is the cause and effect? or could it be a vicious circle?

YABU - no, asd cannot be caused by lack of sleep/ my autistic child always slept well etc

YANBU - my autistic child was sleep deprived/ there might be a causal link between lack of sleep and going on to develop ASD

I'm autistic, so is my son. I've always slept way more than the average person. My son sleeps well and in a routine. Not that my anecdotal evidence has any weight, I just thought I'd share.

Sleep disorders are co-morbidity of autism, not the cause. Just like epilepsy, hypermobility, etc are.

It is very interesting how many people are reporting an excessive amount of sleep in autistic children

I didn’t suggest that my ds slept excessively. Sleeping like a log (phrase being used my many other parents here too) just means a deep and un-broken sleep and not necessarily excessive. He slept for a normal amount of time.

I think your energy op would be far better spent in studying the vast array of literature available about autism, much of it inconclusive, and not blindly conjecturing on here. You’re coming across as somewhat self important imo. Autism a very serious subject and I don’t think you’re helping anyone here, yourself included.

Off topic but I have wondered if the lasting fallout from chernobyl could have been a contributing factor to the increase in autism. I know its partially due to more awareness now but I have considered that perhaps there might be a link

Not a complete answer (there is no complete answer yet that I know of) but a recent study found the degree of fever for the mother while pregnant had a high correlation with Autism outcomes - i.e. a very high fever during pregnancy had a high level of autistic child outcomes but certainly not a perfect correlation.

if I recall correctly, the neurologic pathways that present in ASD are fixed in utero, during the first trimester. Could be wrong - long
time since I went through primary source research papers, but I think it’s first trimester…

Which doesn’t exclude environmental being a factor in addition to genetic factors, but the idea that babies develop autism… no. I don’t buy that for a second.

There are no illnesses that “cause” autism. If it’s caused by an illness it’s not autism.

I don’t understand why the original question was posed or why the op is a quite so invested in this. Perhaps they have a relative with autism and want the say “aha, you caused it by their sleep routine as a baby”

there are advantages to autism (which, with the superior imagination neurotypicals claim to have they should be able to see). Thinking differently is essential for the development cf society. Normal people do normal things but for things to develop we need abnormal people.

OP, I wouldn't change my autistic son for the world. Wouldn't change my dad, either. Or myself. There are plenty of peer-reviewed studies out there for you to peruse, yet you keep coming back to make posts that are actually quite offensive.

Please look up what post hoc ergo propter hoc is, and stop being ableist, thanks.

What counts as excessive sleep in a baby? What is normal sleep? You haven't answered that yet. You are asking those with autistic children about their sleep habits. Some are saying their babies slept well. Some are saying their babies didn't. You are taking this to mean that both good and bad sleep cause autism (rather than ... autistic people slept in some way, shape or form as babies!). Can't you see how ridiculous that is? You could also conclude that both weaning early and weaning late cause autism, or that both eating too much and too little sugar cause autism, or that both no and frequent screentime cause autism (etc. etc.)

There is no defined amount of proper sleep. Sleep needs change frequently in babies. You've no idea whether your idea of good / bad sleep is the same as the poster who is replying to you. You're not comparing these babies to those without autism. Have you noticed that most people will either say their DC slept well or badly? Is that because we in fact have no definition of average / normal sleep? I felt my baby slept badly when she was waking twice in the night. For someone else, this might be their baby sleeping well. Who is right? Who is at risk of autism? Your science is bad, your post is as arrogant as it is offensive and, despite your credentials, you seem to have wildly offensive and outdated views on autism.

I personally have always slept more than the average person which is down to constantly being fatigued. I believe this is because of the sensory aspects of being autistic. I find average things like shopping overwhelming and therefore tiring. I also find masking, scripting conversation, carrying out routines, the millions of thoughts at once, etc tiring. I've been this way since I was a kid. I also have all over body pain and have since childhood.

I have had daily naps my whole life and without them I'm not a very nice person.

Not good enough, OP.
This is your (highly offensive) thread, so you need to do the research.

Hi OP. You seem to have a very fixed view of the merits of your hypothesis. You've come to a space with lots of people with lived experience of autism. They are telling you that their experience is different. You keep pulling back to a very fixed view. Why come to debate in this forum?

I wonder if your thread might work better within an academic setting where you could give due consideration to ethics?

And I would'n't read too much into the 'data' from your poll. People may have chosen YABU because they find the premise of your thread unreasonable

No.

You're assumption appears to be that there is a single sleep pattern that suits everyone. That is patently untrue.

If anyone, ND or no, who gets the sleep they need is fine, anyone who doesn't might want to consider changes.

Ooh, more goady rubbish about ND. Same shit different day. OP, why do you keep doing this?

Also, I am curious as to your hypothesis to explain why not every single baby who sleeps too little or too much is autistic. What possible underlying mechanism could explain that?

My autistic ds has always been a great sleeper

@sharptoothlemonshark do any of your dcs have autism ? Do you have a family member whose child has autism. I also feel that it’s trying to attribute “blame” tbh and that is just fckn awful omg as if some parents don’t have enough to deal with with. Autism is a neurological condition that people are born with.

I have two with asd.
One slept very well and the other was a nightmare. They are both good sleepers now as teens/young adults especially the bad sleeper.

Ah, I remember you now, OP.

You're the one who said "gentle parenting was ruining education for an entire generation"

You also asked last week about selective mutism and I replied with lots of helpful detail for you. Lets face it, you were questioning it though, not wanting advice.

Your wanton ignorance is thinly veiled.

Please @sharptoothlemonshark , tell me how I and my two autistic children need/should to be cured?

My autistic DS slept brilliantly as a baby. I’d have to wake him to feed him.
Fast forward 11 years and he’s still bouncing off the walls at 10pm and up and 6am
However once he’s asleep Metallica could be playing live in his room and he wouldn’t stir.

OP sounds like a real expert. 🙃

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

No, you have it backward - autism is by and large genetic, and poor sleep as an infant/toddler is a sign of autism, not a cause.

I hope to god that the OP isn't actually allowed within several miles of anyone with autism
This thinly veiled suggestion that autism somehow needs curing and is a terrible thing is horrifying
BUt this wasn't idle musing Op Was
its ableist goady shit stirring bollocks