Could autism be caused by lack of sleep?

[sharptoothlemonshark]

I don't mean the disrupted sleep all babies and toddlers put their parents through, I mean serious sleep deprivation at an early age. Or deprivation of one type of sleep.

With everything we now know of the need for adequate sleep for brain development, it makes sense that babies who do not get enough are not going to develop normally neurologically.

And many parents with children who have serious ASD report MASSIVE lack of sleep, well beyond normal

Anybody have any insights into this link? Which way round is the cause and effect? or could it be a vicious circle?

YABU - no, asd cannot be caused by lack of sleep/ my autistic child always slept well etc

YANBU - my autistic child was sleep deprived/ there might be a causal link between lack of sleep and going on to develop ASD

My autistic son slept well as a baby and had a good routine. His autism didn't become apparent until 2 to 3 years when his stims became noticeable and his speech was delayed. His sleep only became effected when he got to about 4 or 5. Sleep problems are a symptom, not a cause.

There is research showing that HG, pre-eclampsia and induction of labour all lead to an increased risk of the child being autistic. I had all three with DS - though I believe HG increases the risk of pre-eclampsia anyway, and pre-eclampsia is more likely to lead to induction.

(I should say I wasn't diagnosed with HG at the time, however the paediatrician who assessed DS was very interested in that aspect of my pregnancy and put that I'd had HG on her report so she clearly felt it met the criteria.)

I hate threads like this. What's implied is that it's somehow the sleep quality (or maternal health, labour choices, food eaten, supplements taken, medication used etc.) that are to blame for neurodiversity. What's also implied is that it's someone's 'fault' - usually the Mothers. Threads like this tend to be really ableist too.

My DTS2 slept from very well from birth all the way up to age 7/8.

In bed by 7pm, no sleep disturbances, unlike his NT twin brother who be up at least once a night from toddlerhood.

Then he couldn’t drop off no matter how much we ran him ragged! Tried melatonin but it only worked for a short period. As an adult now he’s nocturnal and sleeps a lot in the day.

How does that fit in with your hypothesis OP?

NT DD was also a nightmare sleeper. DH used to be worried he’d crash his car on the way to work as he was so sleep deprived as she’d scream for hours.

well, no, I am not advocating sleeping pills for babies, not the current sleeping pills, which don't give a balance of the right type of sleep, even to adults

I am suggesting this is an area that needs more research, and there might be ways of helping babies sleep better, but it isn't researched at the moment, because it isn't a priority.

Interesting suggestion about ADHD too

My ASD DD slept through solidly from 3 months old. In fact, she slept so much in the daytime that I didn't bother with baby groups until 6 months as I found myself to be the only one singing 'Wind The Bobbin Up' to a comatose child.

ASD is genetic and I can see elements in both mine and my partner's families.

Congratulations. You’ve solved it. You can work on a cure for Autism. What’s next on your list. ADHD? Down syndrome?

FFS you are being very unreasonable.

Because sleep issues are a symptom / side effect.

The brain changes that lead to autism will be happening in utero. So it's either genetic and caused and there's something heritable in the gametes or it's random mutation but a common one (like Downs Syndrome) or it's caused by something happening in the Mother so it's an epigenetic change.

Perhaps you could disclose your interest, OP. Are you parenting a ND child or a very poor sleeper?

It is very interesting how many people are reporting an excessive amount of sleep in autistic children, this isn't something I hear much about. I suppose its parents of children who don't sleep who talk about it more, and ask for more help.

However excessive sleep also indicates something not working right, doesn't it, sleep has to be a balance of the right types

Yes, I do think it is a bit of a stretch to think that, rather than a genetic predisposition causing autism and that possibly resulting in sleep disorders as a symptom, genetic predispositions to sleep both well and badly somehow result in the same neurodevelopmental pathology resulting in autism. A further big flaw is the use of retrospective observation. Parents with children who are diagnosed with autism are more likely to remember and attribute significance to their child's sleeping patterns than those without. What about all those who are not diagnosed with autism who sleep badly as babies (like lots of babies do) or who apparently also sleep very well as babies? What is your model for optimal and appropriate sleep? How many night wakings are normal? How much sleep deprivation is ok? What counts as sleep deprivation? What about babies who sleep well overnight but nap less in the day? What about the latter? What about those who wake up frequently to breastfeed rather than those who have longer undisturbed blocks of sleep? When is this damage happening?

What is your background and reason for this interest OP? If you are genuinely interested and / or speaking due to personal experience you should have done your research and have already realised how many you could upset and offend with this thread. If this is just an interesting thought you've had then I'm not sure why you're doubling down so hard when it's clear your thread is offending people.

I don't think you're going to have any luck getting anyone to research this. Your hypothesis is extremely flimsy and has no basis in reality. Autistic children can have disordered sleep but it's not usually present in the baby years. Your sample size of 800 seems ok but as most people on here are telling you something totally different where did you find these 800 people?

I've worked in care or education of autistic children, and am aware of how many families seek respite care because of sleep issue, etc, and have often offered respite care myself. ( I am a foster carer as well as a teacher) I had an adopted daughter with ASD who is no longer part of the household - still in touch, but she lives in residential care now

I don’t think this is correct. I thought they had found some cases that had a genetic factor but it was a small group so more likely autism was part of their grater disability.

Oh yeah, now I see. You're "just asking questions". Questions that happen to feed into narratives about autism not being a real, unchangable neurological difference, but actually a fault of parents, or something fixable with snake oil. (Those herbal sleep patches Facebook keeps selling me?) Tale as old as time.

Please show me any study where lack of sleep shows deficits in social communication - which remains the core, essential criteria for autism diagnosis.

To add to the anecdata, my autistic DH and DS sleep pretty well. Myself and my probably NT DD sleep awfully.

I don’t have the capability to politely tell you how fucking offensive this is.

I'm still waiting for a source?

I've 2 with Asd and sleep wise they are both very different.

Ds has always been a good sleeper. Will sleep all night once he's asleep.

DD has always had trouble sleeping she can survive on a couple of hours a day.
Now she's older it's easier to deal with cause I don't need to stay up with her all night.

well, I think those studies are fairly well known and you can find them for yourself.

Ok. If you work in education you must surely know that a hypothesis where both too much and too little of a variable (and a broad, unspecific and difficult to measure variable at that) in a specific but currently undetermined time period (somewhere between 0-2?) causing the same set of symptoms is a very unusual hypothesis indeed. I'm not sure I can think of anything else that follows this pattern...

OP, you are wilfully ignoring all the posts where you are told, categorically, that you do not 'get' autisim YOU ARE BORN WITH IT.

The fact that you ignore this and continue with your 'musings' is hugely offensive.

We are not a pet project you can 'cure'. We are people who were born with ASD.

Not people whose lives were fucked up by a lack of sleep.

well no, because sleep has many different parts, and sleeping excessively often means that you are not getting enough of one of those parts - I am just struck by the huge number of people on this thread reporting autistic children sleeping excessively - that is all

Of course you never know OP, but my gut feeling is that lack of sleep isn't a cause of autism.

I do think it's entirely possible there are lifestyle issues in modern life that are contributors. And I am very strongly of the opinion that not all cases of autism have the same cause, or maybe are even not the same thing.

But lack of sleep seems unlikely to me. Though I think poor sleep in kids could impact brain development.

So you are not, in fact, a neurologist. Don't you think that, if your theory had any basis in reality, it might be something that one of tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of neurologists across the globe might have decided to research?

Also, saying you 'had' an adopted daughter is a very strange turn of phrase, given she is still alive, as is saying you're 'still in touch'- most people don't feel the need to clarify that they are still in touch with their own children, or refer to them in the past tense.