Could autism be caused by lack of sleep?

[sharptoothlemonshark]

I don't mean the disrupted sleep all babies and toddlers put their parents through, I mean serious sleep deprivation at an early age. Or deprivation of one type of sleep.

With everything we now know of the need for adequate sleep for brain development, it makes sense that babies who do not get enough are not going to develop normally neurologically.

And many parents with children who have serious ASD report MASSIVE lack of sleep, well beyond normal

Anybody have any insights into this link? Which way round is the cause and effect? or could it be a vicious circle?

YABU - no, asd cannot be caused by lack of sleep/ my autistic child always slept well etc

YANBU - my autistic child was sleep deprived/ there might be a causal link between lack of sleep and going on to develop ASD

The idea that 'autism is a superpower' to describe the more able end of the spectrum, I find offensive and ignorant of the comorbidities that this group can also experience. My children may not have learning disabilities but their autism (and physical comorbidities) is a significant disability that is impacting on their ability to work and live independently. There is a lot of diversity across the spectrum but OP did not recognise that and instead used a flimsy argument to suggest that autism could be eradicated if a cause for it was found. If people want a measured debate then the OP should have been clear about why she felt that way and backed up her ideas about 'sleep' with evidence. She didn't so its not surprising that there was a reaction and suggestions that this post was written to provoke and upset others.

I think your problem here might be in your assumption that the autistic/ND brain is somehow lacking/undeveloped/wrong and you're assuming the NT brain is properly developed.

How about just considering that there are different types of brain? Neither is "right" or "wrong". Neither is developed or undeveloped. They are just different.

Like you I don’t like the ‘superpower’/I’m special narrative, but also hate the general misunderstanding around ASD - not all ASD people have educational needs for instance. Both of children are/have been severely impacted by their ASD leading to significant MH issues in my eldest (also ADHD). The younger one is less troubled and has worked hard on acquiring social skills and anxiety management strategies to have a nearly normal life and is hoping to study medicine eventually. Both did very well in exams, but the eldest is being homeschooled, is now a year behind, as 6th form was a nightmare for them.

I wish their lives were easier, that puberty/school had been easier to navigate, but I love them and value them just as they are.

I don't think so. It's interesting thought though.🤔

My hot and unpopular take on ASD is that oftentimes it's connected to early attachment; Mirror neurons etc. it's hereditary because interpersonal relationships that shape us go back multiple generations.

Maybe it's maternal lack of sleep?! How many mothers spend thier child's early years totally tired and poorly resourced? How can any mother on her knees with exhaustion attune to a developing child effectively?! I'd bet places that have a 'village' multi-generational living and observe the needs of early motherhood have less traits of autism showing up in populations.

So you are not being unreasonable! Maternal lack of sleep would be a factor

So you are not being unreasonable! Maternal lack of sleep would be a factor

No, it wouldn't! That's just nonsense.

Well, my two had identical (good) sleep patterns. One is autistic. One isn't. Go figure.

Ahhh. The now very well debunked "refrigerator mother" theory.

Boy am I glad that nasty bastard theory died a death in the end.

Not sure what you mean by hot be definitely wildly unpopular and thoroughly debunked along with all the other thoroughly offensive, ableist theories from the good old days when we used to lock up, neglect, sterilise and traumatise the disabled.

Can we please stop trying to blame parents for their children’s ADHD or autism? It’s really not helpful.

Autism is not necessarily genetic.
From World health organisation.
"Available scientific evidence suggests that there are probably many factors that make a child more likely to have autism, including environmental and genetic factors."

All I can say is I'm very glad there are proper researchers out there doing proper research into autism, rather than people like the OP trying to make the facts fit their pet theory.

For the love of Om. Monozygotic twin studies, even without concordant environments show high 90%s occurrence in the second twin if one has a diagnosis.

One line search in Google will take you to many, many proper peer reviewed studies from reputable scientific institutes along with meta studies repeating these findings.

Its genetic. There may be environmental factors which magnify/reduce effects in some cases but that does not mean environmental causation.

And when it comes to sleep deprivation lets face it - I get grumpy and suffer cognitive impairment when sleep deprived, just like most people.

I don't know loads about autism but I'm pretty sure with the experience I have had of autistic children that it's a fundamental part of that person, not caused by something such as sleep deprivation.

If it was categorically genetic, it would be diagnosed by genetic testing but it isn't, it is based on observation amongst other things and there is a vast spectrum of what comes under the diagnosis of autism so while in some cases it will be genetic they're will also be cases where other factors have affected the developing brain and resulted in the same type of characteristics. For example, prematurity, brain haemorrhage, lack of oxygen during infancy, also increase the risk of autism. Perhaps in the future when we know more about the genetics, autism will be further categorised but that level of understanding has not been reached yet.

This.

It has already been stated on this thread that sleep issues can be a feature of Autism, but not a cause. Stated by people with direct knowledge and experience of Autism and how it has either affected them or their children. It is obnoxious to seemingly apportion blame of lack of sleep - and infer therefore that parents are somehow to blame for not trying harder with their Autistic children in this vein - ergo screens, attachment, and any form of parenting in general. (as seems to be the case with the weekly Autism threads)

The AIBU currently stands at 92% You Are Being Unreasonable.

Why is it OK for certain posters to apparently 'idly wonder' about the 'cause' of this particular disability?

Why is it OK to suggest cures and therefore imply eugenics?

Why is it OK that the OP has not stated their intention or motivation behind these threads (given that they have history of similar) It's blatantly click baity, and I'm fairly sure I have enough awareness to realise myself that such titles are, and have been in the past, created specifically to be goady.

Why is it OK that at least half a dozen people have reported this thread, yet nothing has been done about it? Not worthy of deletion? Fair enough, but explain your reasons, MNHQ. Does it not even warrant a message to say something, anything, on behalf of the dozens of people on this thread that are disgusted with the ongoing attitude to Autistic people?

Why is it OK to repeatedly make parents feel like shit about our kids having Autism? We already shoulder the burden of probably passing it on to them unknowingly due to the pattern of many parents being diagnosed after we see traits in our own children. Yes, there's a pattern here. Yes, we are acutely aware, thank you. No, we do not want to go back to the bad old days of sterilising disabled adults. Again, eugenics.

Why is it OK that its always about Autism?

Why is it OK that some people are upset at the rise in diagnosis of Autism? Why and how does it affect them personally? Why do I feel like my life is being questioned? My daughters life is being questioned, and therefore our authenticity is being called into question?

Would MNHQ let this stand if it was questioning the validity or 'cause' of Downs Syndrome, for example?

Note: I specifically used Downs Syndrome in this instance, as I have experience of it. My sibling was born with Downs Syndrome in the 1973. The bigoted attitude and direct questioning of my mother along the lines of "what did you do wrong in your pregnancy?" I thought we had left behind in the 1970's.

I know MNHQ have been monitoring this thread. I reported it at lunchtime and received the ubiquitous "we are looking at it now" then nothing else. Oh but they were quick to delete the post calling out the OP in the strongest terms.

Ask yourself this (OP, and MNHQ) wouldn't you be offended if this felt deeply personal to you? Would you walk away? Or would you get angry and call it out? Why don't you see that it is blatantly offensive? Why don't you see that this is massively offensive?

Stop questioning things you know nothing about, OP. And start protecting disabled people as the law states, MNHQ.

Some people with autism don't produce enough melatonin. Same with ADHD. So sleep is difficult for them

No probabpy not but
Both my dc sleep awful. No sleep for a year for dc1 until cio.
Dc2 didnt sleep till 3.5yrs and even at 9 has been always less than 10h

Both dc asd

Personally i suspect sleeping on back didnt help as reflux etc.
But also exclusive bf.
Teething was hell as even less sleep.

All the asd kids i know dont sleep well.

I think in order
Genetics
Older parents (either)
Prematurity
Smoking in previous generations
Possibly birth injury (ventuouse or forceps)
Parental blood sugar and perhaps baby (rates higher with pcos/diabetes/GD)
Air pollution??
Infections in pregnancy
Meeting more ND people at uni or at work..

Armchair psychologists central is what this thread has become, at least for some posters.

Go and get a degree, a doctorate, put your work forth to the scientific community before you postulate about your own anecdotal evidence- it’s frankly a load of bollocks, somewhat offensive, and of zero use to anyone.

I personally think this thread should stand, and not be deleted, as it shows up the misconceptions and batshit logic used to reach nonsense conclusions, magically conjured up like no one’s ever thought to actually look at the data and evidence. It’s not like many gifted, devoted scientists have been studying ASD for years is it …

It's more the other way round. Autistic children and children with ADHD suffer from sleep issues much more than neurotypical children. Therefore, lack of sleep is associated with these conditions, but it's not the cause of them.
And it's horrible for them. My son has had a lot of difficulties falling asleep (he's 8 and has ASD), we were getting so desperate that we looked at melatonin, which is one step away from sleeping tablets!
He slept lots as a baby and toddler (he was still napping 3h in the afternoon at 3 years old).

Rubbish. It's relatively simple to prove that something is genetic, much harder which genes or harder still combination of genes are actually responsible.

That's true @Daftasabroom, but things like prematurity are associated with a higher risk too so there are environmental risk factors also.

I don't want to see autism prevented, I want to see it accommodated.

WRT the original question- I'm the child of an autistic parent, niece of an autistic uncle & mother of autistic children, all of us have differences in our sleep quality & patterns.

I am sure you already know this and I understand the reluctance to give a child additional medication but giving melatonin to a ND child who is struggling with sleep is nothing like giving sedative sleeping pills. Please don’t discount it if your child is struggling. It can be genuinely life-changing.

I read that there are higher cases of autism in children that are born through C Section.

But is that cause, effect, or comorbidity? Are there other genetic conditions that may increase the likelihood of a difficult birth CS/prem etc. We know ASD can be comorbid with hypermobility. Hypermobility can also cause tiredness. EDS is another relatively frequent comorbidity that is also linked to premature birth.