Am I a hopeless wimp for not punching this man??

[Whatonearth123]

Last night I went for drinks with a couple of colleagues to celebrate the 65th birthday of a man at work - I am not there long and was fond of him (thought of him as a harmless type) and thought it'd be a nice thing to do. I am naturally very warm and open (but not flirty or touchy or whatever) and sometimes I get worried about what I attract. Anyway, he told me he was going to walk me to my door as he lives near me, and we chatted normall,y; I was actually talking about my husband. We stopped outside my house and he went in for a hug, and I hugged him back, and then when I pulled away from the hug he said "no, no, come back" and tried to launch in for a kiss on the lips.
So far, so dirty old man. But here's my worry: in the moment, I didn't tell him to go and f@@k himself, instead my thinking in the moment was "oh he's messing, this is a joke, I shouldn't get hysterical about it" and I let him touch my lips with his for about O.2 of a second. I then legged it, and a while later he texted saying "Sorry, didn't want to make you feel awkward. Actually I am not sorry, you tasted lovely" with a laughing emoji. I waited until this mornin and responded with "I am sure you were just messing, it's fine", just to let it pass and I suppose allow for the fact that he was being a drunk lonely old man who was waking up this morning mortified. I have to see him at work tomorrow and would really hate a vibe.
I guess though, I wonder why I didn't immediately in the moment think "this is inappropriate" and tell him what's what. I feel like a wimp. And I am annoyed about it.
Was I being unreasonable in the way I reacted? Be kind, please, I am a bit mentally vulnerable at the moment with another life stress I have going on.

I am sorry this happened to you.

This is what conditioning looks like and is part of our (women's) DNA, to be all "Mustn't fuss or make him look bad or myself look hysterical" about it.

He did a gross thing and if you wanted to, you could make his life difficult as a result. All of us should take such a stance, at the very instant it happens, but we don't because see above.

Practice telling him in a loud voice to back the fuck off, because there will be a next time if he can help it.

You need to make it clear it wasn’t ok. He thinks there’s a mutual thing going on now.

Dont be hard on yourself because often we freeze/fawn when put in these horrible situations.

But you do need to make it clear that it wasn’t welcome and cannot happen again. “You tasted lovely” is repulsive and he will undoubtedly try to push this further.

And yes you could speak to your manager about it.

‘..you tasted lovely’ 🤮🤮🤮

Your instinct was right, he’s a dirty old man who was trying it on and clearly isn’t mortified if he sent that the next day. It isn’t up to you to avoid a vibe at work.

Edited to add: you reacted in a way that minimised risk at the time.

I think you froze. It's a normal response to being assaulted. Prepare some suitable responses that you can use if it happens again.

I also think you need to be very clear with him if brings it up at work or texts you that you are not interested. Don't worry about being rude

Urgh, disgusting, chancing dickhead.

OP, don’t beat yourself up about it. When shocking, unexpected things happen it’s pretty common to go into freeze mode and react in a way that will propel you away from the awkward situation as quickly as possible.

Do not engage with him any further via text or outside any work-related situation.

Freezing and or fawning is a completely normal response in a threatening situation where you could be hurt if you tried to fight or flee. Don’t beat yourself up for escaping from the situation as quickly as you could. You were not a wimp.

What you can do in the cold light of day though is consider what action you could take now. Again, it will be fine if you decide to do nothing, but many people would consider unwanted kissing and hugging to be SA. Talk it through with your manager if you would feel comfortable doing so.

I think it’s a good idea to tell your manager. You don’t have to make a formal complaint (although you have every right to), but logging it is a good plan - it gives weight to potential future reports you may need to make about this nasty creep’s behaviours.

it took you by surprise stop beating yourself up!! He’s a creep. Disrespectful and slimy. It’s all on him this not you at all!

In the nicest possible way your reaction is weird. He was (is) predatory and clearly not remotely sorry. You need to think about your boundaries and why you didn't feel comfortable / able to clearly state how inappropriate he has been.

Thank you very much everyone, that all really helps. I’m newish in the organisation so am hesitating to speak to management but I will consider it. I made a formal complaint in a previous workplace about the carry on of a male colleague (not sexual at all, just out and out bullying) and it was upheld and dealt with with a lot of stress involved, so I feel a bit “this again 🙄”.
thanks again for taking the time and for your warmth.

She’s already pointed out that she’s mentally vulnerable at the moment. Your reaction to her post is weirder.

Yep “you taste lovely”, give me a break, wish I’d eaten a garlic casserole for dinner 😏

I'd lay money he's done this before, get a woman alone and try it on. Effing creep. It's definitely him not you op.

It's very hard to know how to react when something like that happens. It's really, really common for women to 'freeze' or brush it off. There are lots of reasons - one is just the shock, but there's also often an element of 'This cannot be happening'. I think there's a strong subconscious feeling that, if we react to something like that, we will have to face up to the fact that it's real.

I once experienced a similar kind of assault from a much older man when I was in my early twenties - he did what I thought was going to be a polite air-kiss on the cheek and instead he turned his head suddenly, kissed me full on the lips and put his tongue in my mouth. This was actually in a room full of people. I didn't say anything, just sort of pulled away and acted as if nothing had happened. Obviously afterwards I wished I'd punched him in the face and shamed him, but at the time all that was going through was my head was "What the hell just happened, was it a joke or something, was it my fault, was it even real..."

What's weird is that I have also been sexually assaulted somewhat more seriously and by a stranger in a much, much more potentially dangerous situation - and on that occasion I lashed out and shouted and kicked up a massive fuss. You'd think that would be the more difficult/scary situation of the two, but honestly, it was much easier to handle somehow. I think it can be harder to react when you know the person, or when there are other people around - it's like the added element of weirdness makes it harder to process, somehow?

But yeah, you've done nothing wrong. You had a horrible experience with a grubby old man and there is no 'right' way to react in the moment to that. I'm really sorry you had to experience it.

How horrible OP 🤢

Something very similar once happened to me with a much older male colleague. Very creepy guy, waited until I was alone and had had a drink and caught me totally by surprise. I was mortified.

Nothing you did or said could have changed his behaviour. He caught you off guard and you reacted as well as you could in the moment.

In the nicest possible way, empathy and human psychology are not your strong points.

Hi,
From an HR perspective, yes of course he crossed the line, but at the moment he could easily say it was a joke, you found it funny blah blah (the creep). Don't beat yourself up for it handling it differently at the time though.

What you really.need is for him to not be a creep again or if he is, evidence that he can't deny knowing you don't this. But you also have to work with him.

Use work emails
State something like

I was rather in shock when you grabbed me and kissed me on the lips after your work birthday drinks, and then sent me a flirty text.

I need to let you know that I do not want anything like this to happen again as I found it very inappropriate.

At this moment I am churning over in my mind the things I should have said in a recent entirely different situation to yours, but equally one where I could/should have responded differently. I have decided that I just have to let it go for my own peace of mind; that the benefit of hindsight is a great thing but should not make me agonise over it for ever. We do not always manage to say/do the right things on the spur of the moment and should forgive ourselves for that.

If you hear from him again, I would try and be clearer: "You were out of order and I am not happy about this. I would be grateful if you would stay out of my way at work, or I will need to take this further."

There will be a vibe at work - but he is leaving, if I understand this right, so he will be gone soon.

We cannot always get things right when we are put on the spot. It is because we are human!

Something sort of similar happened to me recently with a guy I thought was just a friend, and I was stupidly polite about it. I was annoyed with myself really but...I think freezing is quite natural. And what would have been better if I'd gone to town on him? Nothing.

Don't beat yourself up.

@PossumintheHouse I've not replied all guns blazing being nasty so not sure what your problem is.

@KreedKafer you know nothing about me thankfully.

She was taken advantage of and likely froze in the moment. The op then the next day appeased the guy which for sometime of that I'll be taken as a green light. Again, I wasn't criticising the op, but there is no harm in suggesting she should have a think about why that was the case because we don't live in an ideal world so men like this generally ignore that sort of a brush off. Hell some hear the brush off and enjoy making the other person feel vulnerable.

I say that as someone that has been on the receiving end of something similar from a creepy older guy at work who admitted creeping me out was part of the turn on.

No doubt you'll both have an argumentative response so like I said we'll have to agree to disagree.

That is so interesting and helpful, thank you. I’m really sorry you had these experiences. What you say kind of resonates: I now recall that when I was a waitress in a dump restaurant in my 20s (I’m now nearly 50) my very creepy boss made a disgusting comment in front of his friends about what He’d like to do to me if he could take me downstairs to the storeroom and I pushed him down the bloody stairs, got my coat and only stopped to shout “this is a crap restaurant” to the customers before i walked out 😂 It’s like I could react when there was palpable danger but last night the danger was so subtle my instinct was to keep everything “nice” Not the same as your experience but just interesting how we react.

Don't beat yourself up. It's a tale as old as time. Lots of men prey on the fact that lots of females will just freeze in this situation and don't want to be rude. We've had 'be kind' drilled into us forever and I sometimes think it's a biological response, from years past when it was safer for women to just 'put up and shut up' or risk being whacked with a club! In an ideal world, you'd have kneed him in the nuts or slapped his face. I hope, after reflection, you'd be ready to do that next time.
As for this man. If he so much as references it again, I'd tell him that he's a dirty old man and you wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. Don't hold back or leave him in any doubt! The law is on your side.

Ewww they just don’t get it do they! I’ve had something similar with a customer, I worked in a supermarket cafe and loved all my elderly customers.. when I handed in my notice one man who i had been friendly with for literally years.. hugged and whispered in my ear I’d love to take you somewhere just me and you and show you how much I love you!!! He’s older than my dad!!!!! Totally inappropriate and made me cringe.. I said well I am glad it’s my last day then and laughed it off!!! He tried to call me once after as we exchanged numbers and I blocked him!!!

You may have reacted like that in your 20s, but you've had 20 more years of conditioning not to react. Don't beat yourself up about it; you did nothing wrong. A lot of us think what we would do in this sort of situation and it's rarely what actually plays out when these things happen in reality.

The man is a vile creep.