To think middle schools should be introduced in the UK?

[Serrina]

The transition from primary school to high school is very difficult for a lot of children at 11 and there's very little preparation for it. Somehow they're expected to jump from a nurturing primary school environment - which is often like a second home to many children, and spending the day in their own classroom with their own teacher and all their friends, then all of a sudden to a regimental high school system of registration, then having to go to different classes at various points in the day, with little more than a couple of minutes to get from one class to another and being penalised if they're "late" despite the fact the next class may be at the opposite end of a huge building than their previous one.

They have to get used to not just one new teacher, but several. Uniform rules are generally stricter, blazers aren't allowed to be removed no matter how hot it is, and in early September when school starts it usually is still quite hot.
Teachers in high school generally aren't as kind as primary school ones, if a child is upset or distressed they're expected to just "get on with it" they aren't comforted and reassured as they would be in primary.

P.E. lessons are more regimental, and you're expected to shower afterwards which is distressing particularly for many girls at this stage, as they are going through many changes and might not feel comfortable with this.

You're penalised for not having the right equipment on the right days, which isn't such a big deal in primary schools.

They're only 11. They've come straight from the school they've attended since they were 4 years old, and all of a sudden they're sharing a building for more than 6 hours a day with 15 and 16 year olds. And high school children can be brutal.

I know Year 6 is meant to be the "preparation year" but I don't think it's enough. They're still very much in a primary school environment. And outside of maybe one or two induction days, they don't have much help with the transition at all. I think this is one thing our cousins across the pond get right in terms of the education system, by having middle schools (previously called junior high schools) as a kind of in-between stage to help ease them in. I really think this kind of system would be beneficial here.

One of our local comps is built on split sites - in general year 7-9 is based on one site and year 10-13 on another but very close site but some more practical subjects are based on a particular site. The timetable is arranged to allow commuting time with the younger ones tending to stay on one site.
It has worked well for many years

Schools are crumbling down. You can hardly expect the government to pay for this?

I used to work in some middle schools. They were basically like small secondary schools with the kids moving to different classrooms and different teachers for different subjects from Year 5. Was absolutely terrible for lots of kids with send. And then they had to move all over again.

When I was at secondary school in the 90s we had a lower school area, an upper school area and a sixth form area. You still had lessons in all areas but there were separate canteens and break areas, and your tutor group room was always in ‘your’ area. That seemed to work ok. Less intimidating.

We have a mixture here (northumberland). Primaries/ secondaries have only really been introduced in the past 15 years. In my area at least, the high schools far surpass the secondaries in terms of results as well as student and parent satisfaction. The middle school is so beneficial to children as a transition stage and prepares them for high school.

I don't remember ever being Expected to shower after PE. I think the only time we all really did was after swimming, otherwise it was a choice most didn't make.

Enforced post PE showers was only a thing I saw in school based TV/Film from the 50s/60s

Don't remember anyone showering in the 00s either apart from walking through one in swimming costumes.

I like the idea of some separate areas for KS3 and KS4. That might have helped

I think the primary school should be 2 years longer. 11 is just too young.
I also think generic secondary that just goes by catchment where everyone goes whether they are interested in learning or not is the source of so many issues.

It works very well in Poland, although children there start school at 6. They tried middle school for good 10 years and went back, so primary is ages 6-14. years 0-3 is one classroom one teacher, but years 4-8 have subject teachers and change classrooms, but the schools are smaller and familliar and then at the age of 14 you can make better decision whether to go academic route, so secondary that is 4 years and ends with a-level or non academic, so there are secondaries teaching plumbing, hairdressing etc. for 3 years plus 1 year work placement.

You can apply and get into any secondary in the country, based on marks in primary and entry exam. there is no catchment for secondary at all.
and so what happens is that children end up in school with people with simillar interests and ability and noone is bullied for wanting to learn history and those not wanting to learn history leave school with a skill. hence so many good polish plumbers and builders ;)

DH and I went to middle schools in the SE but in different local authorities. His home still has middle schools whereas my area got rid of them about a decade ago, I remember because there was local outrage and it affected my nieces who were there when it transitioned over.

I loved my Middle school, each year had to take it in turns to greet the Head he would go through years split with boys and girls. The top year boys when I was in top year girls had a mini rebellion when they refused to say good morning so were kept for hours in the school hall.

We didn’t have showers but we had enforced showers at secondary school, this was the 1980’s.

In my experience year 7s are babied through the transition, certainly not the harsh treatment described in the OP.

However, the year 7s coming through now are unbelievably immature, emotionally several years behind what you would expect.

Maybe to do with lock downs, and being cosseted at home rather than out and about in the real world, I don't know. That is the excuse given, but lock downs were such a short part of their overall lives that I don't know if that can be the whole reason.

The issue we need to resole is why aren't are children maturing to the point they can cope with the transition to secondary school? This is the concern - and trying to build and staff and organise middle schools won't address it.

@notknowledgeable it's hard to compare generations of 11 year olds and how they cope with changing schools.
I mean thinking about it massive secondary schools for 11 - 18 year olds are quite new in the concept of education.
Before the second world war only those that passed the 11+ went to secondary schools (which were considerably smaller than modern ones)
All other children stayed at their school until 14 and left.
After 1944 the secondary moderns were created to but they only were for 4 years (so almost like a middle school) so it was changing schools but no giant 18 year olds there and again the schools were smaller.
But then in the 60s the Idea of comprehensive schools was more popular so for many the 11+ was scrapped - and this was when the 3 tier system was introduced in many parts of England. So secondary didn't start until age 13 (or sometimes 12) in many areas.
Then in the 90s/00s many 3 tier systems were converted to 2 tier due to not "matching" the Key Stages.
So you can't really compare an 11 year from one in the past and how "they coped".

I think we should have less transitions and introduce more smaller schools that go from nursery to year 13.

Im in Uk and in a middle school area. I thought like you and was pleased. Believed my children would have a better transition and a middle age where they were cared for and allowed to develop.

What we actually got was exactly all the things wrong with senior school but at age 9.
The moving around classrooms, sanctions, being shouted at, pretence amongst the kids that they are much older, vile swearing, physical and social media bullying, extreme sexism and body shaming.
But at 9 years old.

Really really damaging idea unless it is offered into a totally different format

Yeah I think there's a solid argument for them. There's a big difference between an 11 year old and a 16 year old and what they need socially. It would enable the school to tailor the environment more specifically to needs.

Have two kids going/just gone through secondary school in UK, neither has ever been expected to shower at school. Don't think the schools (two different ones) even had showers. So if you have a child worried about that, you may be able to reassure them on that score.

In my children secondary for year 7-8 they lump together some subjects, history, geography and RE I think and have primary teachers who teach these subjects. They see the same teacher regularly so they can perform a more pastoral role. I think that helps with the transition. I don’t think I’d want the hassle of then applying again to a high school after middle school. A lot of admin when secondaries can just make some adjustments like mine does

"It wouldn't have to require much rebuilding if they put some of the numerous empty buildings to good use. Or use a section of the existing high schools as a "middle school" section."

OP you do realise that there are almost 250 schools across the UK that are riddled with RAAC and are closed down, leaving many children with no school to go to? This has been going on since July of last year and I'm agog that many still don't seem to know about it!

The government couldn't give a shit about school buildings and have no money or schedule in place to make sure they're safe enough for children to be in. There definitely is NO money for new middle schools.

For what it's worth, our local secondary school ring fences the Y7 children so they're in a bubble for the year. This helps them make the adjustment to secondary school which is very different to primary school.

To be honest, I'd rather see primary schools start to prepare the Y6 children for the transition. A lot of them walk around being the Big I Am, loving being the oldest in the school, which is horrid for the younger children and is big shock to their system when they leave for secondary school.

But maybe they do? My DD and her peers were in Y6 when covid hit so had no preparation or transition to secondary school. And no secondary school until Y8. Teachers strikes in Y9 and now no school at all in Y10 due to RAAC.

I'd prefer the government to put any money they have (are begrudgingly willing to spend) into helping our children catch up on all the schooling they've missed / are still missing and to repair the schools that are literally falling down around us. Middle schools are really not a priority right now.

I see all the time on here comments from teachers saying children are babied too much and have no resilience.
Therefore, I think creating a system that highlights transitions as a BIG DEAL and something HARD you need to PREPARE FOR is not beneficial to any child. (especially for ND children, who do need extra support with preparing them for transition as they may find transition hard - you know what makes transition harder? When social norms dictate it as Big Hard Deal)

It's like with anxiety - if you avoid the things that make you anxious, it feeds the anxiety. If other people talk to you like doing The Thing is some big scary deal, it feeds the anxiety.

How are children meant to build resilience if they never feel uncomfortable, unsure? How are you meant to show your brain 'ooh, I found that hard, and it's still tough some days, but I'm okay!' If you never prove to your brain that can be the case? There are teachers to ask if they are unsure at school, and parents to provide support at home, part of growing is also flagging that when you need help you have to proactively seek it out too.

A child feeling uncomfortable is not always a thing that needs to be fixed. We learn by making mistakes. Sometimes, we know kids might find it hard, so we say 'if you need some help, remember you can go ask XXX' or subtle things like 'let me give you an extra big hug as it's your first day'
(Caveating this with ND kids may need different tactics)
But the language we use, the attitudes we have as adults, the frameworks we develop for kids, matters. The old fashioned attitude of 'stop whining, get on with it' isn't helpful, but trying to remove any form of discomfort from a child's life is so detrimental to their developing brain.

This is aside from the obvious: we have no money or teachers!

No it is very easy to compare.

The year 7s coming through right now are easily 5 years behind emotionally compared to the year 7s coming through 5 years ago, and 10 years ago, and 15 years ago, and 20 years ago, and 30 years ago.....

These children are infantile compared to the cohorts I have seen through previous decades of education. ( the year 8s arrived like this too, but have matured considerably over the past year)

This is a common experience among colleagues in many many schools.

I am not exaggerating to say that the current year 7 mentality locally is closer to nursery. They have been with us 6 months now, and have grown considerably - but the level of maturity they arrived with was shockingly, jaw droppingly low. It caused considerable comment at the time - some of us who have been in education for decades had never seen anything like what we have seen in the last couple of years.

If the government suddenly managed to actually put some money into our crumbling education sector, the money would be better spent on giving teachers a proper salary.

I was going to say this, in my kids school there is no way on earth they'd have time to shower, change and get to their next lesson halfway across campus in time.

@notknowledgeable but for an 11 year old from - say the 1950s - would have gone to a secondary modern school and it would have been a very different experience. Smaller schools and the eldest pupils were 15.
An 11 year old in the 1930s wouldn't have even changed schools at 11.
An 11 year old in the 70s could have been in one if the "new" 3 tier system so at middle school when 11.
So you can definitely compare generations of 11 year olds. Their experiences have been so different

I dont really know what your saying. I am saying that in our experience, maturity has fallen off a cliff edge in recent years - we don't need to build new schools to cater for the retarded emotional growth in our children, we need to tackle to retarded emotional growth in our children!

We are in a three tier area that has begun the transition to two tier. DS went to middle school from Y5-8. When the transition was done in a neighbouring LEA (sneaked through contrary to the outcome of the consultation) they closed the middle schools and for a while it was quite messy. There were 'deserts' leaving some children without a local choice from Y9.

There are two middle schools in this area, the one DS went to is big and like a secondary - 970 pupils, 240 in Y5. It was a big change from the 125 pupil village school, and getting the school bus at age 9 seemed rather daunting. Students move around the school for lessons. DS was happy there.

The other one was smaller and more like a primary. The smaller one has now converted to secondary, but without a sixth form.

DS is now in Y10 at upper school in the same academy chain as his middle so lots of crossover and it made the transition from Y8 to Y9 easy. He was really excited to go there. It is massive, (1700 students Y9-13, 420 in Y9). I just looked at the 2022 exam results and they are better than the mixed secondary over the county border but worse than the boys' secondary.

One reason given for the transition to two tier was the difficulty in recruiting teachers in middle schools. The plan was to convert both DS's old middle and current upper to all-through 4-19 schools. Our village's school would have to find room to add two classrooms for Y5-6, probably taking some of the playground away.

It has been paused due to the LEA fucking up the finances, to the fury of the academy chain. Luckily the timeline wouldn't have affected DS anyway but some friends are pissed off because they don't know whether their younger children will be able stay at the middle school through to Y13 or have to move at Y9.

I think rhe vast majority of kids are more than ready for seconday school at 11. A few might not be but hou need to go with the majority