To think middle schools should be introduced in the UK?

[Serrina]

The transition from primary school to high school is very difficult for a lot of children at 11 and there's very little preparation for it. Somehow they're expected to jump from a nurturing primary school environment - which is often like a second home to many children, and spending the day in their own classroom with their own teacher and all their friends, then all of a sudden to a regimental high school system of registration, then having to go to different classes at various points in the day, with little more than a couple of minutes to get from one class to another and being penalised if they're "late" despite the fact the next class may be at the opposite end of a huge building than their previous one.

They have to get used to not just one new teacher, but several. Uniform rules are generally stricter, blazers aren't allowed to be removed no matter how hot it is, and in early September when school starts it usually is still quite hot.
Teachers in high school generally aren't as kind as primary school ones, if a child is upset or distressed they're expected to just "get on with it" they aren't comforted and reassured as they would be in primary.

P.E. lessons are more regimental, and you're expected to shower afterwards which is distressing particularly for many girls at this stage, as they are going through many changes and might not feel comfortable with this.

You're penalised for not having the right equipment on the right days, which isn't such a big deal in primary schools.

They're only 11. They've come straight from the school they've attended since they were 4 years old, and all of a sudden they're sharing a building for more than 6 hours a day with 15 and 16 year olds. And high school children can be brutal.

I know Year 6 is meant to be the "preparation year" but I don't think it's enough. They're still very much in a primary school environment. And outside of maybe one or two induction days, they don't have much help with the transition at all. I think this is one thing our cousins across the pond get right in terms of the education system, by having middle schools (previously called junior high schools) as a kind of in-between stage to help ease them in. I really think this kind of system would be beneficial here.

When I went to school (north east) there was a three tier system with first, middle and high school. This has gradually been phased out although middle schools still exist in some areas.They worked well in my opinion.

I don't think I agree with the need but if money is being spent on schools, I don't think it should be in a massive reorganisation and building programme just so little Johnny doesn't have to remember to pack a calculator or queue up with big boys.

Some areas still have them.

Most of the areas with them are getting rid of them because of transition issues.

We have a middle school and I agree with you.

It's a little bit more than that, but OK 🙄

I agree OP - there's a reason the private sector has 13+.

But it would cost so much and require so much rebuilding, it will never happen.

It wouldn't have to require much rebuilding if they put some of the numerous empty buildings to good use. Or use a section of the existing high schools as a "middle school" section.

As @Octavia64 pointed out they were actually abolished in a borough near me in the 1990s as they saw no benefit in the system as the children would have to go to yet another school after 13. Part of the reason they were done away with is because it meant that children would end up in four different schools e.g. infant, middle, upper, 6th form. (For the same reason lots of separate infant and junior schools have been done away with in boroughs that had them instead of middle schools.)

Anyway the issue isn't with the separation by ages but the strict uniform rules and more regimented regime that is now enforced in schools in an attempt to get children to behave well.

Also we got upset about being forced to have showers after PE. It isn't a new issue.

They exist in our area although I strongly suspect the LEA wants them phased out. It does mean yr 5 walking to school by themselves and as a result most of them have phones.

We have them here and they are being phased out op

They aren't all that

I totally agree. 9-13 is such a transitional life stage anyway; by 9-10 lots of children are looking a bit big for primary and ready to step up a bit, whereas 11-13 year olds are still very young to be in high school. Middle schools are the answer; they were brilliant in the city I grew up in before they were abolished.

Phased out in Oxford about 10-15 years ago due to underachievement. They can become ‘lost years’ where nothing really counts. No older peers above 14 to inspire or mentor. Too much of a shock at GCSE at the change of pace.

Additionally difficult to staff. Most subject specialists want to teach GCSE and A level not just KS3. Ended up being staffed by primary teachers who were not subject specialists.

I agree these aren't new issues but just because we've always done things a certain way that doesn't mean we have to continue doing it that way when it clearly doesn't work.

What empty buildings?

Ideally it could be staffed by a mixture of primary teachers and specialist KS3 teachers.

I agree these aren't new issues but just because we've always done things a certain way that doesn't mean we have to continue doing it that way when it clearly doesn't work.

Middle schools like separate infant and junior schools were phased out because they don't work.

The issue is the awful uniform rules and regime at secondary schools.

If the prep school system works for the rich why can't the rest of us have it?

3-7/8 year olds in nursery /pre-prep

8-13 in prep/middle schools

14-18 in high schools

A bit like USA too.

Why does no one try this??

The middle school system where I grew up was awesome, really worked for that transition period and meant we had specialist teachers from year 5 so a massive boost for science, languages, tech, music etc.

There’s a shortage of maths and science teachers anyway. None of them are going to want to only teach KS3. There isn’t the challenge.

You will end up with bright students coasting or bored, being taught by non specialists. No chance to be challenged by higher level work. That’s exactly what happened in my experience in Oxford and the levels at GCSE were much lower than they should have bern for comparable counties. That’s why it changed

But you won't be working with ideal staffing - there's a recruitment/retention crisis in teaching. I think the concerns about not being able to staff middle schools well are very valid. I don't think I know many current secondary teachers who would choose to work at one.

I would have hated that. I hated changing school once let alone twice (Scotland so you only change once, no 6th form). My school didn’t have a uniform either, which was brilliant for me at least. I loved that we had different teachers, because at least then if you got a teacher that you didn’t like there were others. Pe was basically the same at primary and secondary, though secondary they did split up boys and girls to do different things, though if you did want to do the other thing you could. My school had no issues if you’d forgotten something. We were also mainly 12. My year had people from mid December one year, through the following year, and then to mid Feb the next year. So mixture of 11 and 12 year olds. We also only had 4 classes a day, the period was quite long though, we had tutorial, class, break, class, lunch, class, break, class, home.

tbf I did leave 10 years ago. But it doesn’t seem to have changed a lot, apart from there’s now a uniform.

my school wasn’t huge either, about 900 pupils.

We have them, and everyone hates the two middle schools - I think it is just an awkward age, and it will always be difficult to get the right balance between support and independence.

i do think a great deal of what makes senior schools shit could be removed across all years, though- some schools seem to take their inspiration for behaviour management from prisons.

Well.it would need a massive reshuffle in my LEA most schools don't have sixth forms ,but we do have a huge sixth firm college and a second technical college next to each other we also have a large academy school which has a primary school and sixth form on the same site
Maybe all through schools are the way to go?

The big disadvantage of middle schools is they transition at 13 and have one year at the upper school before making GCSE choices and teachers don’t know them

i went through the two tier system with no issue what so ever, so did millions of others. interestingly 42 years ago my area went to middle schools, 4 years or so ago it swapped back to two tier

two tier works, it’s time we stopped molly coddling kids, at 11 they are more than capable of coping

I think it would make a lot more sense to focus on greater transition and pastoral mechanisms within secondary than basically trying to redesign schools from scratch.