To think middle schools should be introduced in the UK?

[Serrina]

The transition from primary school to high school is very difficult for a lot of children at 11 and there's very little preparation for it. Somehow they're expected to jump from a nurturing primary school environment - which is often like a second home to many children, and spending the day in their own classroom with their own teacher and all their friends, then all of a sudden to a regimental high school system of registration, then having to go to different classes at various points in the day, with little more than a couple of minutes to get from one class to another and being penalised if they're "late" despite the fact the next class may be at the opposite end of a huge building than their previous one.

They have to get used to not just one new teacher, but several. Uniform rules are generally stricter, blazers aren't allowed to be removed no matter how hot it is, and in early September when school starts it usually is still quite hot.
Teachers in high school generally aren't as kind as primary school ones, if a child is upset or distressed they're expected to just "get on with it" they aren't comforted and reassured as they would be in primary.

P.E. lessons are more regimental, and you're expected to shower afterwards which is distressing particularly for many girls at this stage, as they are going through many changes and might not feel comfortable with this.

You're penalised for not having the right equipment on the right days, which isn't such a big deal in primary schools.

They're only 11. They've come straight from the school they've attended since they were 4 years old, and all of a sudden they're sharing a building for more than 6 hours a day with 15 and 16 year olds. And high school children can be brutal.

I know Year 6 is meant to be the "preparation year" but I don't think it's enough. They're still very much in a primary school environment. And outside of maybe one or two induction days, they don't have much help with the transition at all. I think this is one thing our cousins across the pond get right in terms of the education system, by having middle schools (previously called junior high schools) as a kind of in-between stage to help ease them in. I really think this kind of system would be beneficial here.

I come from an area that had middle schools, all phased out now. It really wasn’t that great. The PP who mentioned mediocre teachers at the end of their careers totally nailed it. And we still had all the changing rooms for lessons and multiple teachers things.

Most of the issues raised are about policies in secondary schools, which could be solved by switching the policy. I also think it’s a worst case scenario of transition and it’s often not actually that bad.

Is showering at school even done anymore? I’m not sure they even have showers to use at my child’s secondary school. They definitely aren’t using them after PE, no time!

We have them in my county. Dd ended up picking her gsce's in year 9 in a school she had only been in for 4 months....thats not ideal

We always had middle schools where I grew up in the east Midlands. Everyone went to 3 schools. Absolutely loved mine, it was the best time of my whole life. It was so much fun. No teacher expected you to act grown up, as you were still so young. We just had fun. The teachers there were amazing. My 3rd school was a hell hole.

A good primary school builds its older children up for the increasing levels of responsibility. Ours expects parents to remember pe days in the early years, but by year 6, its on the kids, same with spelling and homework. Uniform rules are also held to more strictly as you progress up the school. In our school (state primary) there's specialist music, pe & IT provision, all away from the main classroom, plus weekly library sessions.

Kids by 10/11 really should have some responsibility. They aren't babies!

I don't remember secondary feeling like some daunting transition. It was more exciting, feeling grown up etc. I'd already been walking to and from my primary school for at least a couple of years, and i don't remember teachers being suddenly harsher overnight.

We have them here. DD loved her middle school, it was the ideal stepping stone between first school and high school. She’s in year 9 and started high school in September and she absolutely hates it.

They’ve just done a big consultation about the system and now they’re phasing the middle schools out 😢

This could be a good idea.

My husband and I both suffered terribly transitioning from wonderful, tiny little primary schools to huge, and quite frankly terrifying, secondary schools. There is a huge difference between a recently turned 12 year old and a 17/18 year old.

We are sending our son to a private primary and secondary as a result of our experiences. The primary and secondary are very well linked and do fantastic transition for the children.

They were only abolished recently in my patch and oh was I glad to see them go! My DC1 spent two years at one and then moved on to secondary at 11, they were beyond relieved. My DC2 was spared the double transition thing.

Lots of countries do well without middle school. The answer is to turn around the draconian Academy culture at so many secondaries and go back to sensible middle ground with good behaviour management, uniform that is practical and cheap (or no uniform at all) and good pastoral care.

As an aside, you wouldn't be able to recruit teachers for your mythical middle schools. Teacher recruitment is an absolute disaster right now, and your idea would make that worse.

Are you in the North East? Because the same is happening in our town. Two brilliant middles, brilliant first schools, diabolical (academy) high school. I am a governor at a middle and it is just a brilliant, brilliant school and they are moving to two tier to try to save a catastrophically bad high school over with the LEA has no control. It is a dreadful situation

I went to a middle school. Being thrust into a miniature high school at age 9 is a pile of shit, it makes you grow up too fast. I was shocked in Y5 to go to the toilet and find people were smoking in it. Would never have happened at any primary school I've been to. Instead of letting children be children, within a few weeks of starting Y5, without fail every cohort stopped playing playground games and started standing around chatting like year 7s at conventional secondary schools.

They are, just move to an area with a three tier system if you like it.

I went to a middle school system. The county changed over to a two tier system while I was in the 6th form.

I really enjoyed it and I think it could help with some social aspects, giving kids an easier time of it. But there is a fair amount of concern over academic loss when moving at 13 and (and I think this was the clincher for my LEA) they are more expensive to run, needing additional leadership for the middle school.

I do think most of the issues you have with secondary school could be mitigated by simply having nicer secondary schools that value the kids’ experience of school and personal development as well as academic results. I wouldn’t have wanted to go to some of the school I see described on here at 11, but I wouldn’t have enjoyed them any better at 13 either.

I had a three tier system, with middle school from y5- y8.

I thought it worked quite well. Because there were more schools, all of the schools were smaller and the teachers knew the kids better. You got access to better sports facilities, science labs, cookery classrooms, library etc from year 5. You moved around for different subjects, but in a smaller and more nurturing environment. When you were in y8 they gave you responsibilities within the school and you felt quite grown up. It was definitely more personal and less pressured than going into a secondary with 1500+ pupils at age 11.

They phased it out since then, for reasons to do with finances. I guess it's cheaper for them to run fewer, bigger schools?

I see your point OP but would be interested to hear from people with direct experience of both in similar era. My area has 3tier but we are still in first school. From speaking to other parents one middle school is more similar to the high school and very strict including about remembering stuff and a big transition at 9 instead, lots of high achieving / well behaved kids get very anxious.
The other two are more pastoral and a gentler transition but then experience a shock when they go to high school!

But wouldn't mean middle school is yet another 'I don't know anyone I don't know where to go I don't know where the toilet is' panic? I think one move is enough. And I don't know any school that made kids shower after games. Even my mud encrusted rugby playing son just washed his face and hands and put his school shirt back on (grim, I know), or they let them go home in kit as games was at the end of the day.

when I was at school Junior school was equivalent to school years 5, 6 7 & 8, then you moved to senior school in year 9. We were part of the phasing out of this system in our area so I only did two years at Junior school, then moved as the first lot of year 7s (then still called 1st year secondary). All of the year 8s and Year 9s were also new to senior that year too, so it was a big transition year. Our junior school shut down when we left, but the building was taken over by the attached primary school to house the extra school years 5 & 6 who would have previously gone up to junior school at age 9.

I went to a primary, middle and high school as did my eldest dc. Then the county we're in phased middle schools out so now just primary then high school. This didn't work well for youngest dc. They'd have coped much better with a middle school. They weren't ready to be with the older children when they were moved to high school.

they sold the middle school sites off to build housing estates on 😡

We have middle schools and i think its a much better system!

I went to first/middle/high school and it was fab!

Probably about 30 tiny reception to year 4 first schools

fed into 2 middle schools year 5-8. (Had same form tutor years 7-8 and moved round for lessons as you do at high school. I think years 5-6 only had specific maths and science teachers if I remember right, and form tutor taught most other lessons like in first school/my kids’ current primary)

fed into 1 high school year 9-13.

No complaints from me!

No because your whole school moves up to the middle school pretty much, so you’ll definitely be with people you know. Plus you can request to stay with friends as far as I know!

My children are in the 3 tier system, first school nursery- Y4, middle Y5-8, High Y9 onwards. I think it’s a great system. The middle school gives them the perfect amount of independence whilst still nurturing. They have the advantage of being taught by specialist secondary teachers for some subjects from Y5. The transitions have been fine. The schools work closely together. I really like the 3 tier system. They go to high school and it’s very focused on GCSEs and a much stricter approach which I feel they are ready for a 13 more than they are at 11. These are state schools not private.

Yes we have that here - infants, juniors, then high school (although my kids go to a reception-6 primary).

VERY different to the middle school system though, I think the key of having the ‘tween years’ together, so years 5-8, rather than juniors and infants, makes a big difference.

They have only just got rid of them here!

We are four tier here! Infants, juniors, secondary, college. Secondary schools don’t have sixth forms, they all feed into a single sixth form college (over 2000 students!) The infants, juniors and college are amazing. The secondaries are awful academies run by uniform-obsessed weirdos who seem to thrive on making children as miserable and scared as possible.

Perhaps KS3 (or at least years 7 and 8) just need to be done a bit differently. Based on my early secondary experience, I'm not convinced things needed to be as scary and overwhelming as they were. There's a certain developmental stage where kids probably benefit from much stricter discipline, but is it really necessary to throw that onto 11-year-olds?