To think middle schools should be introduced in the UK?

[Serrina]

The transition from primary school to high school is very difficult for a lot of children at 11 and there's very little preparation for it. Somehow they're expected to jump from a nurturing primary school environment - which is often like a second home to many children, and spending the day in their own classroom with their own teacher and all their friends, then all of a sudden to a regimental high school system of registration, then having to go to different classes at various points in the day, with little more than a couple of minutes to get from one class to another and being penalised if they're "late" despite the fact the next class may be at the opposite end of a huge building than their previous one.

They have to get used to not just one new teacher, but several. Uniform rules are generally stricter, blazers aren't allowed to be removed no matter how hot it is, and in early September when school starts it usually is still quite hot.
Teachers in high school generally aren't as kind as primary school ones, if a child is upset or distressed they're expected to just "get on with it" they aren't comforted and reassured as they would be in primary.

P.E. lessons are more regimental, and you're expected to shower afterwards which is distressing particularly for many girls at this stage, as they are going through many changes and might not feel comfortable with this.

You're penalised for not having the right equipment on the right days, which isn't such a big deal in primary schools.

They're only 11. They've come straight from the school they've attended since they were 4 years old, and all of a sudden they're sharing a building for more than 6 hours a day with 15 and 16 year olds. And high school children can be brutal.

I know Year 6 is meant to be the "preparation year" but I don't think it's enough. They're still very much in a primary school environment. And outside of maybe one or two induction days, they don't have much help with the transition at all. I think this is one thing our cousins across the pond get right in terms of the education system, by having middle schools (previously called junior high schools) as a kind of in-between stage to help ease them in. I really think this kind of system would be beneficial here.

Transition is difficult enough for some children without having to do it multiple times. Primary to secondary is enough upheaval without adding more! Autistic children especially struggle, and 11 is when the cracks start to show. Not just because of the greater social skills required as they become adolescents, but also because of the transition to a less structured school environment. Lots of autistic kids manage perfectly well in one classroom with one teacher and one group of friends, but it all falls apart when they move to a big secondary with multiple classrooms and less supervision, having to get the bus by themselves, more opportunity for bullying etc.

They don’t need to build middle schools, they can just restructure what Yr 7 looks like. My friends son’s secondary school in Wales has it so that Y7 is run very much like primary school where students are mostly taught by their form teacher in their class group and in their classroom, they aren’t set for anything but do have subject specific English and maths teachers come into their classes to teach those subjects and they go to the science lab for science with the science teacher. I think PE is also taught alongside 2-3 classes from the year and with a PE teacher rather than form teacher. Y8 they do start having different teachers for all subjects and are taught most lessons outside of the form classroom but they are only set for English, maths and science so the rest of the time is with their form classmates, it’s only in Y9 that they are set for most subjects by which time they are familiar with secondary School.

I'm not quite clear how a middle school would help this?!

I went to lower, middle and upper. My middle school was exactly how you described a secondary school. The only difference between middle and upper, was the upper was slightly bigger! At middle school we had a class teacher for registration (same as upper), then had each lesson in a different room with a different teacher. With technology the teacher and room changed each term. Eg cooking in the cookery room. Pottery in the pottery room.

Bog standard set of state schools in the 90's.

Strict uniform rules enforced at middle as much as upper too 🤷‍♀️

Huh? It’s news to me that separate infants and juniors have been phased out! Standard to have village infants schools feeding into a central junior school. Ours takes children from four different infants.

For the schools I have taught at,KAy is not as you describe.

E.g. they have a "science" teacher rather than physics, biology etc so they have fewer teachers/subjects in a week. Honestly y7s rarely receive strict punishment for forgetting a calculator, but yes, they are expected to have one. Of course we raise it with tutor/parents of its becoming a regular issue. There's a fair amount of leeway for them being late/lost in the first fortnight and we are told to let them go 5 minutes early when the corridors are quiet and they can see all thenumbers without bigger kids in the way. They get to go to lunch early too.

Having more transitions wouldn't make the transition easier! It sounds like what you really object to is unreasonably harsh punishments and a lack of decent pastoral care.

Wouldn't two transitions be more of an upheaval for children and cause more stress. I'm in Ireland and my youngest isn't starting school until she is 5 years 6 months so she will be 13 starting secondary. Most children around here are 5 starting primary then we have 8 years of primary so they are older starting secondary than children in England. However in saying that the move to secondary can be a massive upheaval regardless of age and so much depends on the school and the individual child.

Middle Schools in England

107 in 14 local authorities in 2019.

Middle school has been fantastic for both my DC. Both are early autumn born, and had so grown out of First School by the end of Y5.

@Reugny a lot of separate Infant and Junior schools still exist.
Some are literally next door to each other and are almost like one school (like a primary) but some are totally separate schools. But usually an Infant school will feed into a Junior one.
You have to do the whole application thing again but it's unusual for a child not to go up to the Junior from the feeder Infant.

Same here. I mid thirties and grew up in East Midlands and had the three tier system. It was phased out and now only two tier, probably about 15 years ago.
I think 3 tier is better, to much of a transition from primary into secondary

My friends whose kids went to middle school didn’t rate them. An extension of primary school and no assessment or connection to high school, so it was a massive step up in terms of work. i don’t think most kids would want to move schools twice.

Went to a middle school. I liked it because it did give you some form of independence which you didn't get I primary but not all of the independence.

However, staff didn't know how to treat you. Those from a primary background didn't treated you younger than you were but the teachers form a secondary background treated you older than expected so there was disconnect

I went to a middle school in the 70s, in fact it changed from 2 tier to 3 tier when I was 9, so I stayed in the same site all through, we had a new block built with specialist classrooms for science and arts.
DBro went to the newly built First school.
I then went to comp just before 14. They converted back a few years ago. The first school demolished, and sold for housing. My old school converted back to Primary. The comp was demolished and rebuilt.
I preferred it l, I liked the more gradual build to specialist subjects.

Either system requires investment, and good, engaged, qualified and well paid staff to work.

They already exist in some counties. Dorset has them and it’s a much better system.

I went to middle school after primary the first year they were first introduced in the UK the early 70s. It seemed a total waste of time for me. It was quite a small school and was still a big shock to my system to transition to a huge comprehensive.

So where would all this money come from?

I went to a middle school in the north east. It felt very much like a holding pen, waiting for “real” senior school to start at 13. Very badly thought through at the time (70s) because the authority had just changed to comprehensive education. The high school (13+) was the old grammar school, and the middle school (9-13) was the old secondary modern. Consequently both schools were staffed by teachers that were unused to the capabilities of the children now attending, and this made a bad situation worse.

Oh I really don’t! I think year 5 and 6 children really benefit from being able to help out with the younger ones and feel a sense of responsibility- my son certainly does. And being the top of a quite substantial tree is lovely for them. Plus they are probably a good influence for the little ones if things are managed well.

I agree with more transition to secondary- in the term before they go though! Not in the holidays and announced last minute after people have planned their holidays.

Dh and I are both teachers, both went to middle schools and both thought they were a bit rubbish. Dh says his was full of mediocre teachers, often late in their careers, who didn't want the pressure of teaching exam classes and were poor at behaviour management.

Middle schools round here, they’re in the process of phasing them out as educational outcomes are poor. Most are turning into extended secondaries currently until the first schools are ready to
be primary. Unfortunately the previous council got the numbers wrong and the whole project has been paused…meaning we now have a bunch of 9 year olds at school with kids doing their GCSEs. Worst of both worlds. Really hoping it gets sorted before DD1 gets to the age.

We used to have middle schools back in my day.
Primary school was 4-9
Middle school 9-13
High school 13-16
Then the powers that be decided to get rid of the middle schools in the early nineties.

My town has recently changed from three to two tier. Sad cause one of the middle schools is now houses/flats.

Town near is currently three but a lot of debate to as they'll change or not. Been going for a few year now

If secondary schools rethought the structure of Yr 7 I think that would make for a smoother transition. So if they stayed with their form classes for most of the day in a similar structure to Primary, this could get the kids used to their environment and give them time to build relationships ready to go into normal secondary school structure in Year 8.

Also one of the middle schools was quite strict in terms of uniform and blazers and all that jazz..pupils were just younger though. Obviously that was one school out of how many there were...