7-10 year old boys are the most neglected children

[Sunnytimesarecoming]

I work in children's safeguarding and I see it all the time. Boys at this awkward ages are often neglected, abused and forgotten. They're past the age of being mummy's little cherub or daddy's little soldier. They're less likely to be outgoing or chatty. They're less likely to be fully embraced by step parents.

I see them at school and it feels like for many of them, the school system just doesn't fit their interests or learning style.
Some almost need that rough play almost hourly. Some just feel pushed towards being men when they're not ready to, or don't know what that means.
I really feel to tackle all the shit related to toxic masculinity we need to do some sort of intensive work with this age group. It's when many young boys start displaying anti female, aggressive type behaviours. Even ones from single parent, all female households like mine.
But what would that look like?

This is not about me. My personal experiences are irrelevant. We are talking about the way our society is organised.

I remember how MN was implying that one mum is neglecting and abusing her four years old because his clothes were "too girly" - normal children's clothing with a bit of pastel patterns.
How many boys are freaked out by pink items and refuse, for example, to drink from a cup "for girls"? What do you think why that happens ? Because they know very well that being a girl means being inferior.

This whole thread is full of 'boys will be boys'.
Girls cannot be praised for being keen on their studies, on trying. When girls are doing something right then this is framed as something boring, dull, not right - not good enough for boys.

I concur. My youngest (ASD & ADHD) took up karate at 9 (because SpongeBob does karate 🤣 & he hated the early morning, cold rugby sessions that his brothers thrived at). It's been absolutely brilliant for him for all of the reasons you cite. His instructor is male, young, positive , disciplined but trained in ASN. It's also very reasonable at £19 a month, so achievable for many. This kind of thing is where money should go in areas where boys and girls are in danger of their environment negatively affecting their lives.

I'm also talking about the way our society us organised. I have almost 30 years' experience working daily with boys & girls from some of the most deprived areas in the country- I know a fair bit about how society works.

I am saying that I don't recognise the 'girls are inferior ' attitude you speak of. Is this anecdotal from you, or can you cite a source? I also don't see much 'boys will be boys' on this thread- I see a variety of valid opinions.

Why are you tarring all boys with the same brush? My eldest was always the studious one and in a big, Glasgow, inner-city comprehensive did not get singled out for this. In fact, his huge Maths brain was celebrated, along with his friendly rival, who was a girl. They're both at university studying Maths. My 2nd wore his cousin's ballet tutu to the supermarket with his wellies on aged 3; he pushed a buggy with his 'baby' in & wanted a carrier for baby when his little brother came along, which he got. Stop saying that all boys are raised the same & are the same.

Contrastingly, my niece played football for Scotland under 18s, was European kick-boxing champion for her age at 14 & is now in law. My other niece is the best 7 year old footballer I've ever seen. Stop pigeonholing according to sex!

I'm so glad it's helped your son, it did the same for my boy with ASD too!
It also helped my older brother when he was that age.
It needs more local government support. It used to be that groups would hire the local community centre, so the price was low. But as community centres have been outsourced and more expensive to run (energy prices and even getting taxed from the local council) the cost is being passed onto the service users. It's really sad. Community groups that benefit so many people are harder to run now, because of cost.

Brilliant for your boy too 👏. It is upsetting when you hear of costs rising. We're lucky that the church halls are used around here. In fact, our instructor who is ND himself & finished school with little, runs the biggest, most successful karate business in the whole of the West of Scotland. Impressive.

@Puffalicious are you honestly arguing that there is no sexism against girls and women in society? That it is a shock to you that people think there is?

I was outside a church where people were arriving for a wedding. A family with a boy and girl (both in this age group)got out of their car and went over to greet friends.
Everyone was smartly dressed. The friends were telling the little girl how pretty she looked and what a lovely dress etc.
The boy, in a smart outfit, was ignored and just stood at the side watching.
I wished at the time that one of them would say something to the boy but the girl got all the attention.

Yes I have to say I do notice how people tend to make more of a fuss over girls in some families. I know several families where this happens.
Some good friends of ours have a girl and boy - 18 months between them within the 8 - 10 age bracket. Both children are beautiful, smart, funny kids. However, it would be easy to forget the boy exists sometimes! The amount of attention and praise heaped on to the girl is quite something. Social media is full of photos of their "brilliant girl!". I'm in a WhatsApp group with this family and some other friends. Nearly every day we get photos and anecdotes about the girl with everyone commenting "Oh isn't she just fabulous!" and "Girl power!" etc etc. I love hearing about her but what about her brother?! He's just as clever, funny and impressive as her but he seems to be living his life in her shadow. Makes me quite sad to be honest.

No, that's not what I'm saying. Where did I say this? I'm a 52 year old woman, so I've experienced and witnesssd a fair amount of sexism. I'm a dyed in the wool feminist who comes from a long line of strong women.

What I am saying is that the PP is tarring all boys with the same brush, blanket statements about 'men think girls are inferior'. That's wrong to state that when there are many parents- both female & male- bringing up their boys to be respectful, inclusive & caring.

This makes me really sad. I'm sure there are other people who know families where their brilliant sons are all over SM, & their girls are in the shadows. It's so sad either way.

Not at all, I wanted a boy and have a boy. He has a different relationship with his father, there's nothing wrong with that. Better to acknowledge and appreciate these things than to deny and ignore. Boys (and girls) need dads (or a positive male role model). Obviously they need their mums too. We both bring different things, because we are different!

You are bang on here. I dread having sons because I just wouldn't know how to parent them through those difficult years.
Beyond Grievance is a good book which explores how poor white boys are the invisible demographic in society. Pretty interesting.

Thanks for the recommendation. Thanks.

Because of differences in brain development, girls have always outperformed boys academically, and this used to be dealt with by rigging the exam results, and even overcompensating. For example, at ten, we were told by our teachers that there would be more grammar school places for the boys, because they would need a profession so they could support a family. Nobody found this odd, that I noticed.

In any case academic success doesn't entirely predict overall success in life. In terms of lifetime earnings and wealth accrual, a boy will on average outperform a demographically matched girl with equivalent academic qualifications.

There's also a problem around IQ distribution. The mean is the same, but the curve for boys is flatter, with more individuals at the extremes. The clever boys don't cause a problem, but the ones with very low IQs do, and they go on to form most of the prison population.

I know this is about primary age children, but I do also agree that the loss of heavy industry had a bad effect on boys, especially coupled with later school leaving. When a fourteen year old went into an apprenticeship, he would be working alongside adult men, who could act as role models at a time when he still had lots of growing up to do.

That's absolute nonsense. If you're looking at any studies at all, you're not very good at it.

What about treating children as individuals? There is so much lazy treatment of children based on gender stereotypes it's ridiculous in this day and age. Not all girls are princesses and not all boys are rough snd tumble. These stereotypes perpetuate behaviours in children and teenagers and adults indulge them. Don't get me started on how ridiculous gender disappointment is.

I agree.

And as the mother of girls, I don't wish to see schools having to adapt their curriculum to deal with immature boys who want to spend their time playfighting.

Parents should take them to do sports, especially cross country. Running miles through the mud is very character-forming and build resilience. Boys need hobbies and parents need to facilitate this. If there is no decent male role model, a sports coach is an ideal person to look up to.

@Tenyold could I ask what the school was? Sorry to be nosy, am looking for one like this!

@CinnamonJellyBeans sounds like the sort of punishment you wouldn't force on your daughters.

The trouble with threads on Mumsnet is so much opinion is based on anecdotal evidence. There is a lot of statistical evidence about the underachievement of poor white boys. There is a lot of statistical evidence about the mistreatment of little boys compared to little girls. I mentioned earlier that boys are more likely to end up in care (uk).
Sadly, there is precious little energy to address these issues.

Sport isn't going to increase their literacy & numeracy is it?! What is is proper investment in children & education from 0-18, including moving with this ever changing society for the benefit of all children.

But you continue with you're 'I'm alright and bugger to everyone else ' Thatcherist stance. If we can't de-personalise this for the benefit of everyone can we even call ourselves a proper society?

Yup. The status quo is safer for the middle classes.

@Thesquaddogs the problem is they're not considered a priority. Everyone thinks the world is run by men (which it is) but not men from council estates. Nor men with learning difficulties or ADHD.
The system isn't designed for them to succeed. A good proportion of the prison population have ADHD or have been in care. You see the link.
But everyone can only see the solution as 'making things worse for girls'. This is not the only solution! Arguably making things better for boys will in turn make things better for girls/ women. All the unhappy men in the world undoubtedly have a negative impact on women's wellbeing:

Running miles in the mud, rain and snow was marvellous for my girls' resilience.

They wouldn't call it a "punishment"; more like a "challenge".

We need to change the mindset of society and our expectations of young people, so when these young boys are presented with a "challenge", they don't view it as a "punishment", opt out, start playfighting and throwing glue sticks.

A very thought-provoking topic and discussion. A while back I watched a ted talk on the challenge boys face in education, link below for anyone interested