7-10 year old boys are the most neglected children

[Sunnytimesarecoming]

I work in children's safeguarding and I see it all the time. Boys at this awkward ages are often neglected, abused and forgotten. They're past the age of being mummy's little cherub or daddy's little soldier. They're less likely to be outgoing or chatty. They're less likely to be fully embraced by step parents.

I see them at school and it feels like for many of them, the school system just doesn't fit their interests or learning style.
Some almost need that rough play almost hourly. Some just feel pushed towards being men when they're not ready to, or don't know what that means.
I really feel to tackle all the shit related to toxic masculinity we need to do some sort of intensive work with this age group. It's when many young boys start displaying anti female, aggressive type behaviours. Even ones from single parent, all female households like mine.
But what would that look like?

And it is why very poor boys from some minority ethnic backgrounds in the UK still do very well. Because their parents will not accept boys will be boys, and they expect good behaviour and and have high expectations for their boys.
I worked in a very poor area and remember telling a single mum who had moved from the Caribbean that her boy had been badly behaved that day. She was absolutely horrified, said she would talk to him, and after that he was fine. She said if he was ever a problem just to let her know. Contrast that with the white mum who said I was picking on her boy because I tried to talk to her about her son's much worse behaviour.

Children respond to high expectations. I see it time and time again. People will excuse poor behaviour in very young children, especially if they look really cute. But there comes a point at about 7 or 8 when that changes and that behaviour is just seen as bad behaviour rather than cute. I always think those children, and it is often boys, must feel really confused at the difference in how others treat them at this age.

Loads of mums excuse behaviour in young boys that they do not accept in young girls. And loads of mums who excuse poor educational attainment in young boys by saying boys are slower to develop, rather than supporting them to improve their attainment.

I think it’s a lovely age so I’m very surprised to hear parents lose interest in them. I have 2 boys who are in that age bracket, and they are just wonderful and great company.

My eldest definitely struggles because of a lack of relationship with his father. Ex was abusive towards me and is a very withdrawn, emotionally unavailable father.
He can’t learn to be a good man, father or partner from his father. I have obviously tried my best to help DS manage his emotions so that anger isn’t the default emotion. However no matter how hard I tried to be both mother and father to DS he needs a male role model.
DS once told me his stepdad was like father he never had. That was an incredible insight for a child to realise about his own father.

For me kids need fathers but any old loser isn’t good enough father material. Some men are more harmful being fathers then walking away.

When I was a teen doing a levels, I was often picked on for examples of good essay writing. All the "wrong" examples were from boys.

I'd have written something like "the writer initiates with a..." and the boys might have said "the writer kicks off with a...".

They were making exactly the same technical point about the writing thereafter, using the language modelled by their interests. Except using more rhetorical language than me!

They shouldn't have been penalised for their interpretation of the writing for how they expressed it. They just needed to be taught essay-ese without shame.

I agree boys in this age group can be wonderful. I know some.

I agree that abusive fathers without an alternative role model has a negative impact on both boys and girls. In boys it can lead to boys emulating the abusive father and being bullying and aggressive.

What do people who accuse education of being "feminised" think it used to be like? Traditional schools were based around sitting at desks in silence in rows with strict discipline from the teachers. Maybe this is what the boys "failed by the system" need, but is it actually what the people who think schools are too feminine want?

I'll be honest, as the mother of a 7 year old girl (and a 3 year old girl), I'd guess it's at least partly because it's around this age boys start making a lot more trouble! My DD has been perfectly happy at school from preschool through year 1 having both boy and girl friends (although certainly her best friends have always been girls); now she is in year 2 as part of a mixed year 1 and 2 class, and while she still has boy friends among some of the gentler year 1 boys, all I hear about they yr 2 boys is how they make fun of the girls, mock their games and try to disrupt them, take over spaces the girls are using etc. You see it in the playground after school too, little boys who 6 months ago used to be very sweet suddenly becoming incredibly loud, obnoxious and aggressive toward each other and to smaller children and same-age girls, cheeky and mouthy to their parents and other adults. Not all, obviously, but it's a definite trend.

I suppose someone could say chicken or egg here - do boys this age stop being catered to because they start acting up, or do they start acting up because they stop being catered to? I wonder if there's anything biological at play - some sort of testosterone surge around this age which could account for the change in behaviour - or if as you say it's down to them being 'discarded' when they lose the sweet toddlerish look and manner, and their behaviour is a reaction to feeling betrayed/unloved?

Isn't it funny? Back then, when girls couldn't even attend school, no one questioned it. When girls were doing half of what boys were doing at school, it was female biology stopping us. Now, when boys are playing even game, and it turns out they are not as good at it as they should with centuries of advantages – the system was set up for males, by males and is run by males- it is alarming. Oh, funny.

Apparently, girls like to sit still and revise when boys are born to play football. So, clearly, it is male biology that is limiting them.
Or maybe gender roles that most of you are not questioning once befit girls – and for a really short period, as once they leave school, their obedience will be punished and not rewarded.
Boys from a very early age learn that girls are inferior, so it is not surprising that teachers, who most often are women, are not in position of authority.
Mums crying about how their darlings are saints and those awful girls waiting for boys' innocence are also part of the problem.

And don't let me start on MH….
Suicide and threat of suicide are recognised behaviours in abusive males. Often preceding the murder of a woman and their children.

Women are 3 as likely to suffer PTSD as men. Depression is similar. More often than not, it is a result of male violence. However, women have more obstacles in accessing services plus are often portrayed as hysterical – disparity observed even in prisons, so when a person has almost no agency. Women are overlooked even when the state is responsible for their well–being.
Men are met with excuses and sympathy – they don't know how to express their emotions, and they don't know how to change. Maybe we have to accept that men generally do not want to change. They want women to be subjected to their rule – they do not want women to change.
No one talks about men's mental health despite the media and the internet are not talking about anything else.

I have found sexism in primary school has had negative consequences on my boys self esteem and education. If I could send them to an all boys school I would. We do try our best to do things at home to reduce the impact. There seems to be a massive general preference for girls, I have had some horrid things said to me about having boys😔

People are confusing poor academic achievements with the education system specifically failing them. Black kids are more likely to receive harsher punishment for the same infraction and be excluded etc and even face harassment for wearing their natural hair…the list goes on.

What helps them in academic achievement is many of them come from immigrant backgrounds where education is pushed. That is about their homes and not the education system particularly going out their way to help them.

there are masses of initiatives or at least there were before tories cut a lot that targeted working class kids - race wasn’t a criteria.

And I think it’s also important to add that a white boy with poor education qualifications applies for a job and if a black boy applies for a job with those same qualifications the white kid is more likely to get the job. A black kid with poor education or even well education is also more likely to be sentenced more harshly by the criminal justice system foe the same crime as their white counterpart.

These are not my opinions btw, there’s heaps of research on who gets call backs on cvs, who gets through interview stages etc and who gets higher sentences in court etc

So even if we accept the lazy argument that the education system is more likely to fail white young boys - and I don’t agree, but even if I did agree it doesn’t necessarily translate into affecting their economic conditions to the same extent as it would a black young person.

This is another reason why many minorities in poor area are determined their child will not fail academically and put them into after school tutoring etc - they know that society will not give second chances to Jamal or Ahmed the way it will to Tom Smith.

This. I agree as well with mums and even female teachers having a boys will be boys attitude and excusing poor behaviour in boys. I saw it myself as a former educator.

The boys would be surprised when I’d come down on their behaviour as they were used to being disruptive and it not being challenged.

There are actually studies that show that a lack of rough play in early childhood for boys in particular leads to behavioural and concentration issues in later life.

Also, an absence of fathers statistically puts boys at a disadvantage, even when you exclude other factors like poverty and parental education level.

Sexism in primary school? Against males? Can you see how ironic that is? What are you exactly doing at school to reduce the impact of sexism against your son at home?

At this vital age they need male father figure more than anything. Look at all of the single parents households where boys grow up with just the mother. They are raised with women in the nursery, majority female teachers in the primary school. They have no male role models.
When my oldest went to nursery they had two male nursery assistants (who were a couple). He remembers them so warmly, over the years we went back few times just to meet them.

It’s not ironic it’s horrible. We don’t tolerate sexism at home.

@sonypony can you give examples of how your sons are being treated differently due to their sex in school?

As a man who was once a shy introverted boy I'll tell you what such children like : rules. Rules that work , that are fair and that apply to everyone equally and without favour.

I've noticed the same with my own sons. Especially aged 7-10. And don't confuse them with endless options. That's giving them your problems - and you are the adult.

Rough housing one pp suggests. No thanks. One of my lads said ' I can't wait to be an adult - there won't be any thugs pushing you in the queue for dinner' . He was wrong of course. But why legitimise such idiocy? Let them have some childhood first at least. My tuppence worth anyway.

I'm a mum of 2 boys. I'm also interested/well read in terms of men's attitudes to women and very aware of how the world we live in has primarily been catered to and designed to suit men. I try to educate both boys (at an age appropriate level) about this, and my DH is a kind, attentive father who (IMO) demonstrates well how to respect women.

My eldest is in this age bracket OP mentions. He has in the past 2 years really become more of what society views as a 'boy' ; obsessed with football, always zooming around and can be quite boisterous with his play. He has 2 parents, and we are strict with boundaries and so he knows not to be running about in public (e.g., when out at a cafe) or in the house. I've noticed public/wider family reactions to him Vs his cousin (girl of same age) differ a lot - if my son is loud/excitable during a board game he'll be quickly reprimanded whereas his cousin displaying similar behaviour will be supported for being a girl with a competitive streak. Likewise, some of the language used commonly to describe behaviours differ depending on the sex of the child - a boy is often described as 'naughty' whereas a girl is 'sassy'.

Yeah as a black woman too I think low expectations are one of the worst thing for boys. It does sting though that as an ethic minority and woman you can work hard and it still isn’t enough in the real world after school.

Most interesting thread I've seen for a long time, and you are absolutely right. I've also worked in schools and we 100% have a problem with this age group, who grow up to be troubled teenagers. But I think the age group you mention is where the intervention needs to happen.

I haven't got time today to add anything much to this unfortunately, but I am reading Steve Biddulphs book 'raising boys in the 21st century' at the moment.

I think my husband perfectly embodies his masculinity and I'm absolutely fascinated by him because I very rarely meet other men like him (sorry that's a bit humble braggy but it is true!).

My son is very lucky and I really, really worry about many of the boys that have passed through schools I've worked in.

This is about the age my brother went from being semi-neglected to flat out abused so it hits home what you've said

Wish I could go back in time & theyre were better resources

Interesting. My DS is in this age category. He is still very sweet and lovely, as are his friends, and they all do well at school.

It's definitely food for thought. I think this is the age where gaming, and being seen to be cool start to creep in and that probably changes behaviour.

I think boys this age need a lot of outdoor physical play/sports. Mine did anyway. They love it and it helps with focus and wellbeing.

People who think pre-pubescent boys "need" rough play hourly because of their sex are part of the problem. A big part.

And what's your AIBU?

That's shocking! How horrible.