To be so angry that people like this are in charge of SEND budgets

[Dalmatron]

Has anyone seen the thread on twitter/X about the Warwickshire Councillors at the scrutiny panel for SEND spending?

I am so angry!

Some quotes:
(Talking about institutions) "They had better ways of dealing with them at that time. Let's go back to those ways"
"I don't know what the fix is, I just look back at years gone by those people by whatever means, it was right at the time".
"Is it something in the water?"
"Families are swapping tips to get diagnosed"
"Why are there so many people jumping out with these needs? Where were they when I was at school?"
"Why do so many people have this badge of SEND and special needs?"
"To stop this spend fix the problem at source"
"the plea of a Mother saying Little Willy has ADHD when Little Willy is just really badly behaved & needs some form of strict correction"

How can people like this be in these positions? Why has nothing been done to remove them or apologise? I felt sick watching these clips.

Warwickshire Council thread

You probably don't need money. https://sossen.org.uk/about/jr-initiative-the-pap-project/

I love this and totally agree with you about the right environment. It's something I was saying to friends last night. 7yo dd is absolutely bossing Y2 this year - a far cry from last year's school avoidance when she lay in bed naked clawing at her hair because it was 'annoying her' and she could no longer function, including wearing clothes. What's made the difference to her? An EHCP (hard won following two years of battles, and recently implemented) and an absolutely brilliant, recently trained teacher, who communicates well with parents and takes the time to get to know and understand each child and their needs. She understands that teaching and learning is not one size fits all and I cannot tell you what a difference she has made to my family. Because ND affects the whole family, not just one individual.

Exactly, this.

@Updownleftandright Well I’m “baffled” by your response that implied I said things I didn’t. I did not say it’s all nurture and parenting”. Btw I’m ND -as I already said- but my brothers aren’t so I know full well that things vary among sibling groups.
But there being differences within sibling groups doesn’t necessarily indicate certain symptoms in some children is not linked to trauma. Two kids can go through the same or similar experience and respond differently. And siblings can have very different experiences also even growing up within the same household.

Also , I didn’t even mention autism. ND and Autism are not synonymous.

My best friend has CPTSD, (due to childhood abuse and neglect) the symptoms she has present similar to what many females with ADHD report. If she had went down another route when seeking medical help, she’s fairly sure that’s the diagnosis she would’ve been given. There are many more examples I can think based on my own personal experience, and also my time working with kids who had traumatic or dysfunctional backgrounds.

My comments about people being being strategic about working hours /claiming benefit wasn’t necessarily about parents with SEN children actually.It was a general point I was discussing based on a point someone else had raised about the growing tax burden falling on a relatively small workforce. In fact the friends I used as an example actually have 3 non-disabled NT kids.

And even then, I did acknowledge sometimes people just had to do what’s best for their family as long as it’s legal, and as I stated there are issues such as wage stagnation and massive rents , that have to be looked at to ensure it does pay to work. So I was far from being hostile to them, just agreeing that it is a problem impacting all of us that the government needs to solve. So really you need to get a grip before throwing out words like “judgy”.

And no I’m no doctor but not every “consultant paediatrician” or medical professional has the same view on the root causes of certain things.

Anyway you’ve read into things I simply didn’t say.

It's sad reading this thread because many people don't understand that with autism comes severe learning disabilities sometimes. Lots of SEN are related to brain function and whilst good parenting is important, you can't always parent away challenging behaviour. My son fits the SLD and ASD category. I'm not a lazy mum (I bloody work FT for a start), it is just the way his brain decided to stop developing, but many people seem to expect him to be higher functioning than he will ever be, so you assume you are making it up for attention.

It is really difficult to manage FT work, a child with complex needs and other kids whilst trying to get the basic care you are legally entitled to out of a failing system that tries to deal with the issues by blaming parents. this is another unpaid job in itself. People will just assume you'll want to give up work and live in poverty instead - well no, i'm not doing that. An education is a basic legal right and I won't be forced into that. LAs and the DfE have a duty of care and responsibility. My life would be whole lot less stressful if we just had accesto what NT kids have. An education, and wrap around and holiday clubs. I could get by without much else,but we don't even have access to these things normal children have. Then you have people whining that you are making it up so you don't have to work and can claim benefits, because lots of families can't make working life work for them and they don't have any other option. You are damned if you work and are judged for it and then damned if you are forced to give up work too.

I still can't get over how impacted my son is by his autism and how my life has changed from it. He is a beautiful, kind boy though, and I wouldn't change things, but it is hard to cope with and people's assumptions and ignorance make it all the more harder. I'm actually pretty gobsmacked by it all, as I thought we were an inclusive country generally and of reasonable intelligence, but then again, look at the state of things politically in the UK.

Are you saying your friends pretended their Dc had SEND when they didn't just because they wanted them to have 'extra support'? What support did they need if they didn't have SEND? I think they may be disappointed as the level of support can often be, 'Here is your diagnosis, here are a few fact sheets I printed of the internet, goodbye and good luck!'

Fair enough, sorry if I mistook what you were saying. my frustration is much of what I have seen on here is parent blaming, when really the huge issue is under-funding by the Tories and not having any strtegies in dealing with increasing demand. My LAs solution is to simply not assess people or issue EHCPs, but the problems still remain whether you acknowledge them or not.

We do need to look at why demand is increasing, but if you have ever been through the process of applying for assessment, EHCPs and additional help it isn't something people do for money and clicks like some people think (not saying you think that, but some people do), it's a bloody hard and emotionally taxing process.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that they 'pretended' that their DC had SEN but they wanted to be sure that their children got the diagnosis they felt was right. Unfortunately like any assessment with a threshold, there will always be some people that are one or two marks away from meeting the criteria and these people are often in a grey area where they don't have a diagnosis but are hardly regular NT children either. The parents wanted the children to access any help that was available and to have extra time in the exams as they felt their children needed it. They felt it was in their children's best interest to get the diagnosis so they actively pursued this and part of that was making sure they were familiar with how the assessments worked and how to be sure you have met the criteria. I suppose it is possible that without this level of preparation then the outcome of the assessment might have been different and thus they have skewed the statistics somewhat. I definitely don't think these are the only parents doing this as most parents will go to great lengths to ascertain something they think is in their child's best interest.

That’s ludicrous. You don’t need a diagnosis to get extra time in exams and a diagnosis is based on masses of evidence to even get on the diagnosis path let alone walk away with one. Swaping tips would be completely fruitless.

You get next to nothing after a diagnosis. Its main benefit is a better understanding of yourself and MH treatment being adjusted. I guess it gives more weight to reasonable adjustments but they should happen anyway and often don’t without a diagnosis.

Is depression a rare diagnosis now? It used to be quite common but I can’t think of the last time I heard of a young person being diagnosed as having depression?

Some of the comments and attitudes on here are absolutely awful. I'm so embarrassed for some of you 😳

The ND children are here and exist and need their needs met. Is it even that councils place to debate a rise in SEND or should they just be getting on with making provisions for these children? "There's no money blah blah blah...." correct but then there's no money for anything because the people at the top in Westminster either badly mismanage it at best and at worst set up dodgy contracts for their mates! THAT'S what really needs to be dealt with, not denigrating parents who are trying their very hardest to do their best for their children.

@CapybaraParty even if we recouped the money from ‘dodgy contracts’ and so on it would be a drop in the ocean. I’m sorry, I agree corruption is awful and frustrating, but this ‘oh it’s all down to the Tories funding their rich mates’ is only 1% of the problem. Happy to show figures if you wish. I say this because until we face the real issues - not the bogeymen on both sides - we can’t get anywhere, with anything. The real problem here is our very fucked economy.

Fully agree it's only a part of the problem but it doesn't help and is indicative of other corruption and money mismanagement. These kids still need and deserve support though and sitting around debating where SEND has come from doesn't get them that support ☺️

Of course they need support, but the rise in numbers is in part why their needs aren’t being met - we can only spend so much on SEN (like anything) and the more children that require support the less there will be for each individual child. So it’s highly relevant to discuss why there has been such as rise (as confirmed on her by educational psychologists and experienced teachers) although the way he put it was archaic and unpleasant.

No I was not but its often the environment not the person.

Reference all the many geniuses.

Ofcourse its a spectrum.

Where is the empirical evidence its more from lower socio-economic groups. That's utter nonsense.

There are more people aware of difference so ofcourse they're are more diagnosed.

Well fistly just because someone says they're an EP doesn't actually mean they are one. From the crap they came out with, they are clearly not, so again embarrassing yourself 😔

You want to know where the rise has come from, fine, but I don't think a few dinosaurs sitting around in their little council offices are going to sort that are they?! There's nothing they can do to investigate where the rise has come from, it's not their department or their place. Their focus should be on how they meet need for these children better.

Im sure the money could be found, we're a very rich country, but other services are prioritised and money is mismanaged.

Local authorities have no money. They are crumbling its not just SEND. Remember that when you vote.
Those two were twats but the exact same people are in charge of Social care budgets across the country. They gave little or no understanding and are at least honest in revealing their ignorance.

Agreed. I speak to a lot of councillors in my job and none of them are enjoying making cuts. Central govt completely decimated their funding

@CapybaraParty I don’t feel embarrassed. I also have relatives and friends IRL who hold the same opinions. It’s widely accepted now among professionals there has been a true rise as well as better diagnosis. Again, happy to signpost to respectable sources.

Of course they can’t investigate, they were thinking out loud. I’m not defending their tone, just saying nobody else is asking and it’s a question that really really needs solving. Urgently.

And no, we’re not a rich country. This again is a myth. If we were a rich country, Labour (who are very likely to be in power by Christmas) would be saying, happy days folks! We can solve the lot, just let us get in and give us the keys to the safe! But they’re not - they’ve also admitted we are skint and their capabilities will be very limited.

Which services are priorities out of interest? They all seem neglected to me.

Councils are trying to do away with ehcp and tas.

That comes from Senco in the council.

(general) folks about care about this need to start kicking up stink

You should be embarrassed, your friends and relatives too. I can find professionals who agree it's just better diagnosed and there's better understanding now. You may think it's widely accepted because you pay attention to those who confirm your bias, I pay attention to those who confirm mine. Who knows which one is right or wrong?

Nobody else is asking? You can't be for real?! I see it all the damn time, so you don't even have a good grasp on this but are trying to argue with people who do, AGAIN embarrassed for you 😳

We are a very well off country, don't be ridiculous, the money could be there but it isn't.

Services was the wrong word and I apologise for that. People at the top prioritise them and theirs and as long as they are ok the rest get the bare minimum.

Even if ND is caused by shitty parenting we'd still need money to sort that? So if what you're saying is true it's pointless investigating because there'd be no money to bring back Sure Start centres and other services to prevent the shitty parenting, or would we suddenly not be a broke country then once you have the confirmation it's the shit parenting? I see what you're doing, you aren't subtle, all this wide eyed we just have to ask and find out innocence is pathetic and embarrassing, and specially when there are children being denied educations.

They also can't fund elderly care, fix roads, pay for libraries, fix play equipment in parks , light the streets at night ... Ultimately they are having to make utterly unpalatable decisions in nearly every area.

@CapybaraParty be embarrassed for me then, I don’t really care.

You don’t seem to be able to substantiate anything you’re saying. You’re just getting disproportionately irritated that I don’t agree with you and are now resorting to childish insults.

The fact is our country is Skint with a capital S for a multitude of reasons - general Western decline, covid debts, a public who are heavily reliant on benefits, mismanagement, and a lack of vision and somebody willing to tell the truth because if they did they wouldn’t get voted in.

We have no money for anything. Until we can get more people - a lot more - back in work, this won’t change.

@unexpectediteminthebraggingarea
The difference here is they are using dodgy data to try and say ta are not needed and ehcp don't make a difference.