To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

[Blanket601]

If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

The principle behind charging VAT on private school fees is because private schools are the luxury option to educate students from Reception through YR13.

The reason why this principle does not apply to University is because there isn’t the choice of a free State University vs a luxury private University like there is with schools for children.

The rule and principle isn’t based on ‘do you have to pay fees’? The rule and principle is based on ‘is there a state funded option or not?’

In addition, Universities in the U.K. are all state funded and the fees are all the same no matter how good or poor a University it is. The only reason fees are also charged is because the State decided not to fully fund Higher Education (unless you are in Scotland), which means the fees charged are not to get a luxury version, but to contribute towards HE. It’s like paying a prescription charge- the NHS funds most of the cost of your medication, but you contribute to the cost by paying a fee for each prescription. This doesn’t make your NHS prescription a private prescription. The same for Universities- paying a government set fee doesn’t make the University private.

Huh? Why would state school parents pay VAT on 18K

Thought and prayers for your traumatic Aldi experience.

If you can afford private school, you can afford increases. Higher education should be free for all.

Sorry, but you aren’t doing anyone any favours by not sending your child to a State School. Literally, it’s like saying “oh by holidaying in Mauritius we are saving all those Butlins places, aren’t we so nice and charitable to the less fortunate”

No one is paying VAT on education. I have one in private education, one in state.
DH and I paid over £50k in income tax and NI between us last year and that doesn’t include council tax, the £70k we have paid in stamp duty moving up the property ladder etc. Making out that private school parents are not paying their fair share is ridiculous.

As someone who was excluded from her private school in the middle of a lesson because her parents couldn't afford the fees anymore, I've ensured that I don't get caught out by increases on private school fees by not sending my child to private school.

Breadbutter, most of us pay taxes for services we don't use, I'd hardly call it unfair, no-one is forcing you to go private

@Dibblydoodahdah

I didn't say that you're not contributing.

Our finances are similar, we pay more or less the same. We also paid the same in stamp duty.

What I am saying is that if you choose as is your right to purchase a luxury product available to only the well-off, you should pay VAT on that.

I don't see the less well off getting a VAT break.

*VAT break on a luxury purchase.

Indeed.

Childless couples are hardly getting a refund.

But when we signed up for it there was no VAT.

So it's like telling everyone in the country stump up x if labour get in. Just imagine if you were in my shoes. That's all I ask. We aren't made of money, we don't holiday, we shop on Aldi.

We signed up for a service on the basis of paying X, and if labour get on will have to pay 20% more.

So if you can afford a banking diploma for your career in the City, this should be exempt from VAT but if you can afford paying for key stage maths & English, not to mention PE, pastoral care, religion etc this should be subject to a sales tax ....

I'm sure the banker is a target voter for Labour tho

And if you play the system to pay for 1-2-1 tutoring (VAT free obvs) & buy an expensive house in a good catchment for a selective school thus getting the taxpayer to fund your kids second to none education this should also be free from sales tax but the taxpayer who has paid twice (for a state education & their private school) but chose not to 1-2-1 tutor & buy an expensive house should pay a sales tax or have their kids education disrupted

we get it but beware the hypocrisy of the right-on middle classes

Education is never a luxury and the fact that no other country has sales tax on education shows how off the mark this policy is.

So what? When I had my children, University fees were less than £3k a year and maintenance grants existed. VAT was much lower than 20%.
Petrol duty, road tax and MOTs were much less when I “signed up” to drive and own a car.

There was no contract in perpetuity that when your children were born or as they aged that school fees would always be VAT exempt.

You should be grateful for the VAT free years you have had.

Only if you desperately lack critical thinking skills lovely. Otherwise, YABU.

The comparison between state schools and private schools isn’t really analogous to anything in the higher education sector. For one thing, we don’t really have a two-tier university system (unless you count RH and non RG). I mean, we have a small number of private universities that don’t take government funding e.g the CondeNast college of jewellery design 😂 but that is pretty niche. Universities are accessible to most ( through the loan system) and there is help for those who face barriers to entry such as caring requirements and disabilities.

There is a direct benefit to society to having graduates, not just a direct benefit to individuals. This is not the case with private education.

Society and our economy reap all sorts of benefits from graduates. It therefore doesn’t make sense to have individuals bear the burden of a luxury tax for something the country needs.

Private schools do not benefit society, they benefit individuals. They allow rich people to opt out of meritocracy. By paying for smaller class sizes and better resources, the rich ensure their children get further ahead than their natural capabilities would allow, given an even playing field. Top positions in industry are then taken by people who may not be the most intelligent or best for the job, just the most advantaged. The potential of those lower down the social hierarchy is lost. That’s how we end up with a country run by clueless, Eton educated thicko’s. Where your success in life is due to where you were born and how much your parents earn rather than your intelligence level, experience, potential or skill.

All this said, I don’t think adding VAT to private school fees will fix the problem entirely. The best that could come out of this policy is that it will put the middle classes and upper middle classes in the same boat as the working class. The middle/upper middle may then begin demanding that state schools are properly funded and/or that universities and industries begin properly distinguishing between those who’s ‘achievement’ is due to privilege rather than talent. I think this is unlikely to happen though 😂

I know that banning private education has shown some success in promoting social mobility and diversity in industry in some counties but this seems incredibly hard to regulate!

Re state or private university... Buckingham university is a private one...so you can choose.

@Dibblydoodahdah

A private education is most certainly a luxury.

If it didn't offer a golden ticket of connections and a pathway to all the top jobs, you wouldn't pay for it, would you.

Could you not say university is a luxury then?

Wealthy people always shout the loudest if they think they might have to pay a bit extra....

You could only put VAT on Uni fees if you made the parents pay it, VAT on school fee's isn't being levied on the students.
Plus there is a perfectly viable alternative to PS's.

Odd, KMPG seems to think quite a few countries do.
https://kpmg.com/us/en/insights-by-topic/digitization-tax-on-higher-education.html

Education i.e. state schools are not a luxury. Private schools are a luxury.

@Icannoteven nail on the head regarding buying advantage and "They allow rich people to opt out of meritocracy."

I would add what they are really buying is connections.

The network that will get you an internship to Goldman Sachs, or a job at the BBC, a government department and so on, not on merit but via connections, all at the expense of talented kids who's parents couldn't afford it.

Hence we end up with the so-called talent running the country.

I'd abolish the lot.

Shows how little you know. Like many professional working women I paid for private education because it offers excellent wrap around care and extra curriculars which meant that I could continue with my career (and pay lots of lovely tax). It was also to make sure that my DC were in small classes. Nothing to do with connections and top jobs. My oldest DS now goes to one of the highest performing state schools in the country with a higher Oxbridge entrance rate than the top performing private schools. His brother will stay in private at a school that has hardly any RG entrants never mind Oxbridge. Why? Because he struggles with noise and large groups of people and needs a nurturing environment that our local comp can’t offer. I just want him to be happy. Couldn’t give a fuck about connections and fancy jobs. In any event, the richest parents at his current school are builders.

That is fine. You can send your child to a private school. You just can not have a tax advantage whilst doing so.

This is such a flawed policy and it’s really disappointing to see how popular it is. I have always been a labour voter but this policy has surprised me.

Labour has always wanted to ensure the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. But wealth is relative. Most people who send their children to private school are middle class, and some will either afford the increase and some won’t. The actual wealthy won’t flinch at 20% in extra fees and will carry on paying them.

So we get some additional revenue by way of extra VAT. That’s hardly going to be enough to ensure the state school system is adequately funded and even then, there will be added pressure by way of those families who will no longer be able to afford private school.

The whole concept of othering is a Tory tactic and something that I always hated about the Tories. The Tories attacked benefit claimants for years until they restructured the benefit system to such an extent that many families struggle. They are now focussing on attacking migrants. Find an enemy, stress how bad they are for the country and dealing with it will get the votes. It’s a vile tactic.

And now, Labour is doing the same with private schools. It’s playing on envy that I didn’t get realise many people have until I saw the many MN threads with posters gleeing at the possibility of charging VAT. It’s attempting to other those families who choose private school, but in reality, it will harm those who just about afford it whilst the wealthy will be unaffected.