To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

[Blanket601]

If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

Amazingly, in some families there are two adults and both have jobs.

My wife and I both work full-time. For the first ten years I earned a bit more, now she does. We manage. If we weren't doing school fees, cast-iron guarantee one of us would quit as life isn't easy at the moment *

*and to save @StarlingsForever the keystrokes, we're all well aware that other people's lives aren't easy, and no I'm not asking for pity. Everyone has their challenges. Our challenge is time-poor high-stress and it's directly linked to school fees.

The effect of this policy hinges entirely on the actions of the people you're all demanding pay more tax, not on the challenges of anyone else. To understand this policy you have to understand the effect on marginal private school families, and nobody else.

Many families in private school are on fairly average salaries and scrimp and save to send their children to private school. Assuming both parents are on £35k (the average salary), they take home around £4,800 a month. £110 child benefit. So that’s almost £5,000 a month. Many schools are around £1,000 a month. Some families would be happy to spend £1000 per month on school fees and manage to live on the remaining £4,000.

Not too time stressed though based on the amount of time you ve got to argue with complete strangers.... none of whom you will ever change their minds.

I have been saying that all along, I never said that it was possible on one salary. If you decided to read something else, that’s your issue but don’t imply that I said it was possible on one salary.

Really constructive observation, thank you.

I'm not sure anyone is going to be convinced that you are "time poor" given the amount of time you have spent on here.

‘I'm not sure anyone is going to be convinced that you are "time poor" given the amount of time you have spent on here.’

😅😅😅😅😅

Please explain again how charging VAT will negatively effect patients indirectly? The proportion of doctors who currently have children in private schools is small and if anything they will increase their hours to cover VAT on school fees.

Yes it is, anyone genuinely time stressed & working/worthy of a very high salary shouldn't be on the internet.

‘Our challenge is time-poor high-stress and it's directly linked to school fees.’

DW and I both work full-time, are high earners, professional jobs, not a stressed as you seem to be… maybe it’s the private school that’s tipping you over the edge?
And as for ‘time-poor’ - find me working parents who aren’t.
At least you/ we get paid well, I know a lot of working parents who are time poor and stressed and poor poor on top of it.

OK I am in London and I know a lot of doctors (10 couples, 6 married to doctors so doctor couple) and 9 couples have sent their DC to private schools! 1 to grammars. So from my personal experience, it is true. No idea whether they will change course with schooling, or just up their private consulting hours - we shall see. All the dentists I personally know also send their children to private schools! Some of those used state primaries and then private secondaries.
Amongst my colleagues and the female high fliers, in particular, those earning mega bucks - some do not care about the extra cost to private schooling with VAT and are happy to pay up and some think it will alleviate the 11 plus stress because there is such fierce competition to get into private schools in London. So for the rich targeting the top schools, this is good news. Makes it more exclusive and less competitive in the short term. None of them care one jot about Oxbridge either, by the way. It is US uni all the way at the moment and that is what their DCs seem to be demanding. Which does not really surprise me because if you have been to a top UK private school boarding or day who wants more of the same. They are hungry for more experiences abroad.

In DCs state primary, very good school, lots of kids went to outstanding state comp or grammar afterwards, the only ones going private were those with SEN, dyslexia, autism or just shy/anxious etc. I feel for those parents. In particular, I know a lot of teachers who now teach in the private sector and they are also quite worried about this policy.

No idea what it is like in other parts of the country. Where I am it will certainly cause more competition in the state sector and there will certainly be some change of behaviour for some.

I said a nurse did not earn enough to pay private school fees and for some reason you challenged that statement, when it fact it now seems you agree with it.

@wombat15 “Please explain again how charging VAT will negatively effect patients indirectly? The proportion of doctors who currently have children in private schools is small and if anything they will increase their hours to cover VAT on school fees.”

I doubt the proportion of doctors using private schools is small. Why do you think that?
And why would they up NHS hours when it is more lucrative to up private consultation hours to pay school fees? My kids’ orthodontist definitely does that. And so does their dentist.

"And as for ‘time-poor’ - find me working parents who aren’t."

Keep saying it, everyone has their challenges. Single mums, lower earning families, I know, and their challenges....

... have nothing at all to do with the effect of this policy, which will entirely hinge on the choices of marginal private school families. this is a tax that harms schools, children, teachers and families. and if, after all that, it fails to make money (which is probable) or loses money (which is possible), there's no good in it for single mums, nor for other families, nor for the dogs' home, nor for cancer victims, nor for people in Gaza or any other "what about" that anyone raises.

Yes, everyone has their challenges, which is why the only people who care about VAT on fees of private schools used predominantly by the wealthy are the wealthy who may or may not have to pay more.
you can’t afford it? Don’t use the service.
easy.

‘marginal private school families’

If they’re that marginal, Labour will be doing them a favor.

These are all made up arguments.
The real argument is - we do not want to pay more.

But why did you say it in the first place? I was the person who originally mentioned nurse parents at my DC’s school. If you decided to jump on the band wagon and imply what I was saying was untrue, that’s your problem. I have never said in any of my comments that one parent on a middle income can pay the fees but, if you read them properly, you will see that I have repeatedly said that dual income families in middle income professions do have DC’s in private school.

"the only people who care about VAT on fees of private schools used predominantly by the wealthy are the wealthy who may or may not have to pay more."

Since this tax is being sold to you on the basis of making everyone's life better, surely everyone cares? If it will make life better, that's one thing. If it won't (and there's a good chance it won't) it's another. If it makes other people's life worse, you should care, no?

"These are all made up arguments." @NoisySnail some people show signs of having engaged with and at least understood them. They aren't made up, they are just A-level economics. this is a bad tax, nobody else in the world does it, it will cause great harm and negligible, if any, benefit.

Well, yes. I wouldn’t either! Still, gives them something to moan about at dinner parties…politics of envy, ‘double’ taxation, no-one understands, strivers, penalising hard work etc

I know a lot of doctors and while some of the more senior consultants may have children at private secondary schools the majority of NHS doctors do not. When I said they might up their hours I didn't specify that they would up their NHS hours. I just said they might up their hours. Obviously they might up private hours but that still benefits patients and their contract with the NHS would usually mean that they can't reduce NHS hours in order to increase private hours. What your dentist does is not really relevant as they have a different type of contract with the NHS compared with medics (if they have a contract at all).

‘Since this tax is being sold to you on the basis of making everyone's life better, ‘

oh they had me at hello! they had me at - shall we stop giving tax advantages and tax dodges to some of the wealthiest people in this country? Shall we get rid of something that is visibly unfair?

You overestimate how much ‘selling’ needs to be done. If your school decides to raise your fees - yet again- that’s between you and them.

OP you’ve brought up an interesting issue.

I suppose if the UK deem education taxable, then education is taxable.
So yes University education should also be taxable.

Neither will do the country any good but I’m not seeing any policies so far that are.

‘I know a lot of doctors and while some of the more senior consultants may have children at private secondary schools the majority of NHS doctors do not. ‘

Perhaps it depends where you live, but we know a lot of GPs, doctors, consultants, dentists, - all NHS. Their children go to the local state schools. Can’t think of a single medical friend we have who uses private, and that includes the ones where both parents are GPs/Docs.

Your posts are really starting to sound very strange. My comprehension is just fine thank you. It's just when confronted with posts made up of verbose loaded rhetoric that has been peddled a zillion times before that I tend to lose interest.