Page 37 | To think you don't quite realise how badly the NHS is suffering until you witness it first hand

DaisyCat33 · 2024-02-01T20:40:55+00:00

My parents are sitting in A&E today. They've just hit 12 hours. My dad was sent there by his GP for severe neck pain this morning. He's had morphine and an MRI scan, but they're now endlessly waiting to see a Dr about results. He hasn't even got a bed to lay on, despite debilitating neck pain. Many people are standing or sitting on the floor. The couple sitting next to them have been there since 3am, for difficultly breathing. I'm shocked. Honestly I knew the NHS had it's issues, but this bad?! It's frightening. I also had an email the other day saying my NHS dentist is closing, and it's basically a "well sorry no dentist for you any more, bye bye" I don't really know the point of this thread really, I just feel shocked and upset that this is how it is. And I think a lot of people don't even realise? My parents definitely didn't until today. They are losing the will to live sat in that hospital. Does anyone else just feel utterly helpless and anxious about this?

Dapbag · 02/02/2024 21:20

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:13

So the big question is do you think Labour can fix it??
Because every single issue on that list is due to population explosion. No one ever wants to talk about absorbing an extra 14 million people and the impact thst has had on all of us. Labour have an open door policy so the situation is about to deteriorate further.

Had Labour not overspent we would have been in a much stronger position to deal with the financial crisis!

Show quote history

I do think Labour can fix it...because they have a will to, unlike the Tories who have proven since 2010 that things have only got worse on their watch.

What have the Tories done to respond to an aging, growing population in terms of health? The answer is that they have failed to address the issue and now we are all suffering.

It's fair to say that the Tories have been in power for the past 14 years and so it is their policies which have ruled our immigration situation since 2010. We are where we are because of the Tories, not Labour.

Since Labour left power 14 years ago the national debt has done nothing but rise under the Tories.

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:21

LuluBlakey1 · 02/02/2024 21:16

This afternoon I visited and she had better cognition but was still confused eg 4 men were in her bathroom last night breaking in to rob the hospital.

Has double-sided chest, back and leg pain, can not get out of bed or walk or move herself from lying down, very full chest, continual coughing up of muck and wheezing. Tells me she is 'fearful of the future' would rather be dead, does not want to go back to the care home but has nowhere else she could go. Feels very dirty - no shower or bath but hands and face have been washed. Teeth not cleaned since she went in- Monday night. I asked if it was possible for her to have a shower at some point. Nurse said 'Oh I don't know about that- I'll ask.'
Another member of staff- who looked like a nurse came and said said 'How can I do that. There are only 2 of us washing patients. Anyway she can't stand'.
I said 'Could she go in a chair'
Staff ' I haven't got a shower chair.Where do you think I'll find one of those? I suppose she could sit on a commode but it's got a hole in the middle. I'll see what I can do tomorrow'.
I asked about her teeth and mouth being cleaned.
Staff to aunt 'Have you not got a toothbrush and toothpaste? You can do it yourself'.
Me 'But she can't get to the bathroom.'
She then got one cup of water and another empty cup and said 'Swoosh with one after you've cleaned and spit into the other.'
Me 'Her toothbrush has disappeared. It was in her washbag bag.'
Somehow it is in a corner of the room, on the floor and filthy. She gave her a little tooth rush and left. My aunt cleaned her teeth- she could hardly hold the brush.
I cleaned up after her. Threw the plastic cups away, cleaned table with sanitiser, Disposed of a bowl of phlegm filled paper tissue.

Someone arrives to take her bloodpressure. Again it is 179/99. I am told again 'That's ok'.

Suddenly a consultant arrived and told her she is well enough to leave this afternoon. She said she does not want to go. She feels awful and needs help, can't walk, has not been to the loo for a week, is confused and needs to get better.

He says 'I know you don't want to go but you are much better today and we need this bed for people who are queued up in the corridor. 'Aunt says she can not go home and does not want to return to care home. He says she does not need to be in hospital any more but must continue with antibiotics as her lungs are still showing pneumonia.

I ask about the pains - dismissed as pneumonia effects. I ask about her chest and say I am concerned by how weak she is and am worried she will not be monitored closely and cared for medically in care home. He says the best he can do is a different care home. Nurse says she has not been to the loo. He says 'I'll leave you to discuss what she would prefer and go and see about her bowels.' (As if they are in another part if the building and need retrieving.)

Aunt says she will return to the care home if she has to as she had to pay £2600 upfront on Sunday night when she was admitted for 2 weeks fees and won't get it back.

I have no idea whether they will move her tonight. When I left her room there were 6 staff in nursing type uniforms chatting in the centre of the hub,outside her room having a laugh- they had all been there at least 15 minutes.

Everyone was nice. The ward was much cleaner than the previous ward (although her bathroom was not clean at all) Still I felt no one really wants to 'care for' elderly patients. The idea she might need a shower or her teeth cleaned in 5 days was a nuisance.

I think she could, with physio and care regain her strength to go home but it is not going to happen and she knows that herself. The care home will not do it. The hospital have no facility to do it. She'll end up in permanent care and just degenerate physically, lose all of her mobility, and get another chest infection and die. Someone will wheel her from her room to the dining room and back 3 x a day. Meanwhile they will charge her £1300 a week for the privilege of sleeping in a lumpy bed, in a room with rickety old furniture and having a shower once a week.

It's horrendous.

Edited

Show quote history

I am so sorry 😔 that was such a sad post to read.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 02/02/2024 21:21

CHRIS003 · 02/02/2024 18:40

I only meant that younger people who are tech savvy should offer to show the older generation how to log on to the system or help them to set up a phone etc
I didn't mean they would be asking them to part with medical information.
Also lots of elderly people do have carers and family members who are looking after their medical needs anyway - they can book an online appointment for them or show them how to do it themselves

Show quote history

It depends on the circumstances. Not all elderly people need careers, many are very independent. Using my Uncle as an example, having to ask me to book him an appointment would be chipping away at his independence. And of course he'd have to share medical information with me, I'm not going be able to book an appointment without it!

As well as that there's the cost. Why should someone have to have a smartphone/internet just to be able to access medical care? It's down to the surgeries to make their systems accessible to all. I think online booking is great personally, but not everyone is capable of using it or wants the additional cost to be able to use it.

Dapbag · 02/02/2024 21:22

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:16

And the huge expansion of what the NHS offers..

Show quote history

But it's been within the Tory party's power to respond to this expansion in a constructive way for 14 year and they have not.

sawnotseen · 02/02/2024 21:23

It really is utterly shocking. My mum, 77 is currently in st Thomas' in London after a transfer following a fuck up operation at PHUH. Communication to us is dreadful but the care and treatment she is getting is fantastic. But the A&E experience was awful. My poor elderly mum was left for several hours The doctors and nurses (and nursing assistants, catering staff and porters) are all wonderful at st Thomas'.
My friend is in St George's London with bowel cancer complications and he is crying, literally crying out for painkillers.

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:26

Dapbag · 02/02/2024 21:20

I do think Labour can fix it...because they have a will to, unlike the Tories who have proven since 2010 that things have only got worse on their watch.

What have the Tories done to respond to an aging, growing population in terms of health? The answer is that they have failed to address the issue and now we are all suffering.

It's fair to say that the Tories have been in power for the past 14 years and so it is their policies which have ruled our immigration situation since 2010. We are where we are because of the Tories, not Labour.

Since Labour left power 14 years ago the national debt has done nothing but rise under the Tories.

Show quote history

Ha! Please tell me you are joking… I can’t tell, but taking you at your word. It’s going to take a shit load more than ‘will’ !!!!!!

You haven’t offered even a single Labour solution to anything you have listed, and nor will you. Because if there is one thing the Brexit supporters seemed to grasp is that you simply cannot continue to allow millions to arrive if you can’t look after the millions that already live here.

We are in dire straits and climate change is going to make things even worse. We are going to see mass movement of tens of millions. We need to work out a solution and fast, I have zero confidence in Starmer and Angela.

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:29

Dapbag · 02/02/2024 21:22

But it's been within the Tory party's power to respond to this expansion in a constructive way for 14 year and they have not.

Show quote history

So you think any party would say no to people riddled in pain with rheumatoid arthritis because the medication is £14,000 a year? And such like..

VimtoVimto · 02/02/2024 21:31

I have more confidence in Labour than any of the current cabinet.

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:31

VimtoVimto · 02/02/2024 21:31

I have more confidence in Labour than any of the current cabinet.

The disappointment is likely to be substantial.

LuluBlakey1 · 02/02/2024 21:32

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:21

I am so sorry 😔 that was such a sad post to read.

Show quote history

I feel so bad about what is happening to her. I'm not her biggest fan, she can be very difficult but she is so ill and frail and exhausted and scared and the NHS does not care. Wednesday 'It could go either way, she is very sick'. Thursday 'She is a very sick person and nowhere near out of the woods' Friday 'She is well enough to be discharged today.'

92, double pneumonia, so weakened by it she can not stand or walk, or lift a normal cup, is blind, skeletal, no appetite, bowels not working, constant pain in chest hips and back, confused, hallucinating still.

Personal care standards awful. Little compassion. Like a quick fix, of one issue, conveyor belt. Looks like pneumonia under control, off you go.

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:37

LuluBlakey1 · 02/02/2024 21:32

I feel so bad about what is happening to her. I'm not her biggest fan, she can be very difficult but she is so ill and frail and exhausted and scared and the NHS does not care. Wednesday 'It could go either way, she is very sick'. Thursday 'She is a very sick person and nowhere near out of the woods' Friday 'She is well enough to be discharged today.'

92, double pneumonia, so weakened by it she can not stand or walk, or lift a normal cup, is blind, skeletal, no appetite, bowels not working, constant pain in chest hips and back, confused, hallucinating still.

Personal care standards awful. Little compassion. Like a quick fix, of one issue, conveyor belt. Looks like pneumonia under control, off you go.

Show quote history

It is heart breaking and as a human being she deserves more. Thank goodness she had you to visit her, so many must be neglected completely.

I didn’t have a shower or hair wash in a private hospital for 5 days. I was desperate for painkillers. I wonder if overall care is now just a thing of the past….
I had to cut the mats out of my hair at the end, and they nearly killed me by giving me the wrong quantities of morphine when they finally got around to it, and I overdosed.

I hope your aunt is well cared for in her home, and she feels relief soon 💐

LuluBlakey1 · 02/02/2024 21:45

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:37

It is heart breaking and as a human being she deserves more. Thank goodness she had you to visit her, so many must be neglected completely.

I didn’t have a shower or hair wash in a private hospital for 5 days. I was desperate for painkillers. I wonder if overall care is now just a thing of the past….
I had to cut the mats out of my hair at the end, and they nearly killed me by giving me the wrong quantities of morphine when they finally got around to it, and I overdosed.

I hope your aunt is well cared for in her home, and she feels relief soon 💐

Edited

Show quote history

Thank you. I hope so too

Jimmychoo69 · 02/02/2024 21:50

@LuluBlakey1 your posts are absolutely heartbreaking and utterly terrifying as well. I left the NHS 10 years ago,I worked in a middle management role and could see then that the NHS was not coping. The final straw was getting up in the early hours checking my NHS emails as I was still awake worrying about certain patient’s care and outcomes. A patient now needs someone to advocate for them to ensure they get at least the basic care available and has to continue to push every step of the way.

NotTerfNorCis · 02/02/2024 21:52

By coincidence I was in A&E with my elderly father all last night. We had waited over 5 hours for an ambulance. When we reached A&E Dad was rushed in, so I thought things would move quickly. I was wrong. Four hours later, after I'd had to push to make sure Dad was comfortable (feel sorry for patients without someone to stand up for them) I was told the nurses had forgotten to put his 'observations' on the system. If I hadn't chased it, we could have been there all night without being seen. It was about 3am, six hours after admittance, that we were finally seen. Then it all dragged on for many, many hours.

What struck me about it was:

The slowness, which was not due to staff being rushed off their feet.

The indifference to suffering.

The amount of time and effort spent on admin rather than actively caring for people.

But I would also say that once the system gets going, it's very thorough. The intention behind it all seems good.

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 21:54

It seems the only way you can survive is to have family or friends to ensure basic needs are met, and how is that even possible if everyone has to work to cover the bills. We no longer have an entire workforce at home to pick up the slack. Most people are working into old age themselves..

Completelydonechick · 02/02/2024 21:55

it Is of utmost importance that we do not accept this as normal -and most importantly, accept it. We all know that it doesn’t have to be this way, because we all remember when it was better! Do not let years and years of Tory rule (and the Blair years were very much Tory) railroad us into believing that private health care would be better for all (the very few). It really, really, really won’t be! We are all paying enough money for this not to be accepted as the norm, and we all know it.

QueenOfHiraeth · 02/02/2024 22:02

Ggttl · 02/02/2024 05:52

Virtually everyone knows this but it doesn’t translate into people actually being willing to pay more themselves. People who don’t understand tax say the government should pay more. People who do understand tax say rich people should pay more. Just as long as it is someone else. Very few people are willing to sully the ideal by sticking their hand in their own pocket. Presumably people don’t know how big the nhs is, or they might realise that we all need to pay more towards our health care.

So true! One of the biggest threats to the NHS is the public wanting everything but thinking somebody else should pay for it

@Flowers4me @NeedToChangeName I am not suggesting people who are lonely or bored should be euthanised but am saying those things contribute to a poor quality of life for elderly patients and have to be considered as part of a wider picture. One friend's father, in his 90s, lived in a care home, catheterised but it would block regularly. Every time it blocked the home rang an ambulance which, after hours waiting, took him to hospital and, after hours on a trolley, he would be discharged with yet more antibiotics. He was bored, lonely, generally infirm and begging to die yet it continued for months despite his and the family's requests to stop.

Flufftc2000 · 02/02/2024 22:05

The government! (and highly influential media propaganda!) The NHS under the Tory government, is and always has been, destined to fail…….I’ve been in the NHS 31years and have experienced it all! Everything happens from top down and by top I mean government…….

EasternStandard · 02/02/2024 22:05

Ggttl · 02/02/2024 05:52

Virtually everyone knows this but it doesn’t translate into people actually being willing to pay more themselves. People who don’t understand tax say the government should pay more. People who do understand tax say rich people should pay more. Just as long as it is someone else. Very few people are willing to sully the ideal by sticking their hand in their own pocket. Presumably people don’t know how big the nhs is, or they might realise that we all need to pay more towards our health care.

Going back to this too and yep

It’s one thing that gets a good airing on mn - someone else should pay more

Notonthestairs · 02/02/2024 22:08

"People who do understand tax say rich people should pay more. "

You agree Eastern?

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 22:08

Yup same contenders - usually paying no tax at all demanding everyone else pays more.

EasternStandard · 02/02/2024 22:09

I agree mners love a ‘tax the rich’ policy yes

Basically someone else should pay

Dissimilitude · 02/02/2024 22:09

Completelydonechick · 02/02/2024 21:55

it Is of utmost importance that we do not accept this as normal -and most importantly, accept it. We all know that it doesn’t have to be this way, because we all remember when it was better! Do not let years and years of Tory rule (and the Blair years were very much Tory) railroad us into believing that private health care would be better for all (the very few). It really, really, really won’t be! We are all paying enough money for this not to be accepted as the norm, and we all know it.

If only it was as simple as being all the Tories fault. Look at the figures we spend on it, as a proportion of our economy. It is a systemic issue. Labour will have to grapple with this challenge somehow.

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 22:12

Without understanding the logic that if you tax/rinse ‘the rich’ too much they will just disappear in droves to Dubai, Singapore etc and won’t be propping up any services any longer. Leaving us poorer in every way. You have the audacity to mention this, and you get a sulky reply that they would go anyway without acknowledging most would have been happy to stay if they were not being fleeced.

LuluBlakey1 · 02/02/2024 22:12

Jimmychoo69 · 02/02/2024 21:50

@LuluBlakey1 your posts are absolutely heartbreaking and utterly terrifying as well. I left the NHS 10 years ago,I worked in a middle management role and could see then that the NHS was not coping. The final straw was getting up in the early hours checking my NHS emails as I was still awake worrying about certain patient’s care and outcomes. A patient now needs someone to advocate for them to ensure they get at least the basic care available and has to continue to push every step of the way.

Yes, this. I have wondered what would be happening if I wasn't pushing.