To think you don't quite realise how badly the NHS is suffering until you witness it first hand

[DaisyCat33]

My parents are sitting in A&E today. They've just hit 12 hours. My dad was sent there by his GP for severe neck pain this morning. He's had morphine and an MRI scan, but they're now endlessly waiting to see a Dr about results. He hasn't even got a bed to lay on, despite debilitating neck pain. Many people are standing or sitting on the floor.

The couple sitting next to them have been there since 3am, for difficultly breathing.

I'm shocked. Honestly I knew the NHS had it's issues, but this bad?! It's frightening. I also had an email the other day saying my NHS dentist is closing, and it's basically a "well sorry no dentist for you any more, bye bye"

I don't really know the point of this thread really, I just feel shocked and upset that this is how it is. And I think a lot of people don't even realise? My parents definitely didn't until today. They are losing the will to live sat in that hospital.

Does anyone else just feel utterly helpless and anxious about this?

The Tories have defunded the NHS is what happened.

Well it's A and E isn't it. Absolutely appalling. Triage is such a load of rubbish, just so they can tick a box that you've been seen within a certain amount of time. Although you sit there afterwards for about 18 hours. I waited for 8 hours at Newham General then told to go home and have paracetamol. Turns out I had an ovarian cyst that had twisted and I could have died. The waiting room was absolutely full of people who looked absolutely fine to me....

And that is exactly how GPs worked when they provided out of hours. They didn’t work 24/7 but operated a rota. Fortunately, back then, the public were far less snowflake. It never ceases to amaze me what some class as an emergency. I do think we need to start introducing first aid lessons into schools.

Receipts

OTC remedies for UTI’s are practically homeopathic.

You write like she doesn't deserve physio because she's old.

Perhaps we should re-open the walk in centres/ minor injuries unit and look to build more walk in centres and minor injuries units. Our small to medium sized town used to have one years ago. It shut in 2010. It was well used.

It used to have an x-ray machine so could do x-rays. Anyone who tripped or fell was able to go to the walk in for an x-ray. Granted they could only do ankles, legs, wrists and arms, if you needed hips/backs/ necks ect it was an A+E job. However my last trip to A+E most of the patients who were waiting for x-rays were all legs, ankles, wrists and arms. They did steri strips, glue and small stitches there so if you had a cut that may have needed stitching you could go there. It took loads of pressure off A+E. Now it's closed everyone who would have gone to the walk in goes there.

They had drs there so if you couldn't get an appointment with the GP you could go and sit at the walk in and wait your turn. Now if you can't get an appointment they tell you go to A+E.

I do think some of the elderly outreach services need to do some sessions for older people and how to access the online systems for health care around us. There are so many elderly people around us who are really struggling with accessing the drs after they have gone Amina system priority over phones. Talking to some of the older ladies at church it is really quite an issue. They are just going to A+E because they know by the time the phones switch on the appointments are gone. They are hoping by turning up at 8am they can beat the rush, but are finding they are sitting in A+E all day for hours on end as heavy colds and arthritic pain in joints isn't an emergency. Medications are now all online only at our dr's and some of the elderly ladies at church are begging the pharmacy to do emergency supply prescribe as they can't work out how to order medication online.

I personally think we need to really have a frank conversation about the NHS, we are going to have to start paying more for things. I do think there ought to be a charge for drs appointments. So many are wasted. Interestingly our dr's have reported that since switching to Amina attendance rates are up. I think there needs to be penalties for missed appointments. The whole letters for appointments system in hospitals needs the be addressed too.

Who would want to live in a world where a 95 year old woman couldn't get the treatment she needed to get safely back on her feet?

If she couldn't be rehabilitated she might be unable to return home and would then require care in a hospital.

Are you suggesting that people on low incomes can’t access health services in other European countries…because you are wrong…

How do they access healthcare and is free if they are not working ?

I could not always access health services if I had to pay up front. And no I would not come under the people who get dispensation.

I do think some of the elderly outreach services need to do some sessions for older people and how to access the online systems for health care around us. There are so many elderly people around us who are really struggling with accessing the drs after they have gone Amina system priority over phones. Talking to some of the older ladies at church it is really quite an issue. They are just going to A+E because they know by the time the phones switch on the appointments are gone. They are hoping by turning up at 8am they can beat the rush, but are finding they are sitting in A+E all day for hours on end as heavy colds and arthritic pain in joints isn't an emergency. Medications are now all online only at our dr's and some of the elderly ladies at church are begging the pharmacy to do emergency supply prescribe as they can't work out how to order medication online.

I think it's more the case that the surgeries and pharmacies should cater to the needs of the patients than than the patients have to learn a new system. My Uncle is 88 and could probably learn how to use an online system but he doesn't have internet or a smartphone. He's not the only one so why should people like him have to pay out for equipment/services they don't need?

But free at the point of care means everyone can get healthcare without deciding if they can afford it. I saw a patient this week who stopped their blood pressure tablet because she couldn't afford the prescription charge. That's really common. Her BP was dangerously high and I suggested an 84 day prescription to reduce annual cost.
If people have to pay even a nominal £15-20 those who can't afford it won't seek help.

I’ve just had this realisation this week… NHS has always been great for me, I’ve never had a problem getting GP appointments and had always had quick responses when my mental health issues have flared up… but my 7 month old with a diagnosed heart condition developed breathing problems on Tuesday and after calling 111 we were told to go to A&E. We waited 8 hours to see a doctor, the breathing problems stopped at midnight, by 4am we were still waiting and were the only people in the waiting room, at 5am we discharged ourselves as we realised we’d probably get in to see our GP quicker. We still have no idea what the caused the breathing problems and been told if it comes back again to go to A&E. We are pretty scared about it coming back.
We were astounded though by the saintly patience of the nurses in there who were always smiling, even when some people were being downright rude and borderline aggressive.
I don’t know what the answer is though. I’d happily pay more tax if I felt it would really make a difference, but I don’t believe it will. We are fortunate enough to now have private healthcare, but that doesn’t help in emergencies.

I worked with a nurse a few years ago who had worked in hospitals in Greece
While on a working holiday across Europe- she said that washing and feeding of patients was left to relatives to do. Not sure if this was typical or true ?

@Pinkprescription I agree with you. I was in the waiting room earlier this week and someone popped in for an on the day appointment. The receptionist said she had to rin at 2pm when they allocated the next lot for the afternoon. The woman said she did not have a phone. Fine the receptionist said just pop back here at 2pm.

Systems should not be set up so that the most disadvantaged can not access them.

• yes, 9 months is an appallingly long time
• no - it was a generalist appointment
• no alternatives offered (other than the crap doctor no one wants to see)
• was told to phone every Tuesday when new appointments would be released for the following three weeks
• I half heartedly looked into alternatives - including researching private GPs and speaking with a GPs surgery which a good friend rates and she can get non urgent appointments in a day or so. The said they would be happy to take on someone outside their health authority but then on looking at my 'complex' pre-existing medical conditions, were unable to do so
• i put in a 'not a complaint but direct and candid feedback', not in relation to not being able to get a non urgent appointment but in relation to the crap doctor I did get to see during my 9 month wait

@CHRIS003 that is common in a few European countries. Only medical care is provided.

So glad they're home and ok now OP It was 18 hours a few months back for a parent in their 80s with a head injury and broken bone. 12 of those hours were on a hard chair in the main waiting room, after that (and after I got a bit stroppy with the doctor as parent was exhausted, near tears and begging to just go home) they were moved to an armchair. There was nothing to give them to drink, the vending machine had nothing but fizzy pop, and the room was rammed full of people who were drunk, a guy from the local prison with several guards thoroughly enjoying his day out and holding court with anyone who'd give him eye contact, there was blood all over the floor. There was no way I was leaving a confused, elderly person alone in that to go and find somewhere to buy water. They were dehydrated to the point that it took multiple attempts and a lot of bruises to get a blood sample.

The staff at the point of contact were exhausted and lovely and thorough, but A&E is a God-forsaken organisational mess. One of the things my parent found hardest was the queue management system, which involved seeing three separate people in three separate places, with long queues at each stage. At each point we had to give all info from scratch (carefully entered into computer) before then being sent on to the next queue. None of those people did anything at all but take info. None of that information that they logged was then passed on or accessible to anyone else, so the next person began again completely from scratch and filled out another new form. No continuity at all. It all involved long walks from place to place, no one offered or helped with an elderly, confused, wobbly person, they were exhausted and struggling. As parent commented to me at one point 'I'm not fit and well enough to be ill at the hospital'.

The NHS provides care for anyone who's had botched cosmetic surgery abroad. This is obviously essential in that it's life saving but totally avoidable.

A large percentage of the population see their GP once in a blue moon. DS19 has seen a GP 3 times in his lifetime. Once for suspected meningitis, once for cellulitis and once as a baby with suspected UTI. DH was the same until he had a stroke 2yrs ago and now has to have annual check ups, he had no idea who his GP was or that the practice had merged with another and was in a brand new building.
As a result it is often a surprise to many people just how ridiculous the system has become. I would happily pay for a GP appointment once or twice a year ( despite having a complex medical history I have only seen a GP twice in the last 5 yrs) but any sort of charge would produce a two tiered system similar to what we see in dentistry, all patients pay but if you pay a bit more you can avoid massive waiting times. There are ethical issues involved but maybe a private provision that stands alongside the NHS out of hours may actually encourage the worried well out of A&E.
If you arrive at A&E and you can choose to wait 12hrs for free access or pay £40 and be home within the hour. I know which door I would go through.
It often annoys me when I see patients who moan about the cost of dentistry when they spend money regularly on nails, hair and cosmetic treatments. They obviously have money to have their lips filled but are unwilling to invest in what’s behind the lips. Or, in many cases the inclination to look after what they already have.

When my kids were little the HV’s were in the local health centre so you could ring for advice, plus the weekly baby clinic had a GP so you could pop in with rashes to be looked at etc.

It must be a real issue now for the older generation as the NHS booking systems become more online based - they could always get a younger relative or friend to book it for them or show them on their own phones how to operate their surgery system. Up to the younger generation to help the elderly here I think - why not get some younger members of your church to either show them what to do or book the appointment on their behalf ? Then they may not have to resort to long waits in A&e. Why rely on an elderly outreach service to arrange it. If have recognised there is issue amongst the church goers then surely some one could take the initiative to help them informally why the need for some other organisations to do it ?

@CHRIS003 what about most of the elderly population who do not go to church? And whose only friends and family are also elderly?

It must be a real issue now for the older generation as the NHS booking systems become more online based - they could always get a younger relative or friend to book it for them or show them on their own phones how to operate their surgery system.

What about the ones without internet or smartphones?

Up to the younger generation to help the elderly here I think - why not get some younger members of your church to either show them what to do or book the appointment on their behalf ?

That would mean giving their medical details to other people. I'm pretty sure my Uncle wouldn't want to be discussing his private medical details with me when he's perfectly capable of phoning to make an appointment himself. Just because someone is old doesn't mean their medical records have to be common knowledge!