To think you don't quite realise how badly the NHS is suffering until you witness it first hand

[DaisyCat33]

My parents are sitting in A&E today. They've just hit 12 hours. My dad was sent there by his GP for severe neck pain this morning. He's had morphine and an MRI scan, but they're now endlessly waiting to see a Dr about results. He hasn't even got a bed to lay on, despite debilitating neck pain. Many people are standing or sitting on the floor.

The couple sitting next to them have been there since 3am, for difficultly breathing.

I'm shocked. Honestly I knew the NHS had it's issues, but this bad?! It's frightening. I also had an email the other day saying my NHS dentist is closing, and it's basically a "well sorry no dentist for you any more, bye bye"

I don't really know the point of this thread really, I just feel shocked and upset that this is how it is. And I think a lot of people don't even realise? My parents definitely didn't until today. They are losing the will to live sat in that hospital.

Does anyone else just feel utterly helpless and anxious about this?

I think the aim of the teaching of schoolchildren is help them understand what the NHS is for.
Also the importance of vaccinations - and preventative care
Also when and how to make best use if the system if you need it.
Also homecare of illnesses such as colds and flu and sore throats / stomach bugs and at what point you need medical attention.
Their point being that GP are seeing too many people who are coming to them with colds and minor things that in the past would have been nursed at home or treated with over the counter meds.

I ended up with heart damage after it took over 2 hours for an ambulance to arrive while I had a major heart attack. The local hospital then couldn't see me, so I had to go to another region which was another hours drive.

I havered about saying that but that's accurate.

This very different funding mechanism is not popular with PCNs and GPs for understandable reasons. It's absurd that the govt. has elected this method to alleviate the pressures on PCNs when there are so many better ways in which the money could be allocated.

Another thing for schools to be responsible for. Just what we need 😬.

It is utterly shit. It is traumatising for patients and families.

Do you think Rishi Sunaks announcement about making more use of pharmacists with consultations for the 7 different conditions announced yesterday will be a good thing to free up GP appointments?

• sore throat
• earache
• sinusitis
• impetigo
• shingles
• infected insect bites
• uncomplicated urinary tract infections in women

Pharmacist have been doing this for years - I can’t believe people are still expecting to see a doctor with earache - UTI treatment has been availabe over the counter for a long time - same as a the morning after pill.

Sore throat?? Jesus - no wonder the GPS are struggling!

Main difference here is GP issue prescriptions, pharmacies charge the going rate -

That means it all comes down to money.

They have a lot to answer for on Covid, though they were less bad than the Westminster government while dealing with an older and poorer population.
Anyone interested can follow the Twitter/X account of the campaign for a Welsh inquiry into Covid handling.

My dentist went private over 10 years ago, leaving us without a dentist. This isn’t new.

"Their point being that GP are seeing too many people who are coming to them with colds and minor things that in the past would have been nursed at home or treated with over the counter meds."

I'd need to see stats to believe that.
When I was a child I'd say people were MORE likely to go to the GPs for colds and minor things.
Also, it's not always wrong to go to the GP for a cold or for an illness that might seem minor at first. If you keep getting colds all the time you may have an underlying problem or if your cold lasts for a very long time it may have become an infection. If we had enough doctors we wouldn't need doctors to be lecturing the public about wasting their time.

I thought shingles was very serious so I'm really surprised people are supposed to go to a pharmacist and discuss it in front of everyone. I state again that only larger pharmacies have separate rooms.

Will the pharmacist be prescribing medicine that normally requires a doctor then? Because if not, I don't see what's different because they can already advise you on over the counter medication.

@Scarletttulips we have had pharmacy provision for these things for years. Problem is that certainly my patients want antibiotics which were not available from the pharmacist so would contact us instead. We also found that the scheme didn't work if there was no trained pharmacist on duty. The new scheme allows them to prescribe antibiotics but I guess if no trained pharmacist they will come running back to the GP. The GP is always there to pick up the pieces for every other service when they can't function. That's why it's impossible to offer all patients appointments who want one. I'd be working 24 hours a day to be able to do that.

The difference is a free prescription from the GP - which 60% of the UK population receive.

That means 60% go to the doctors because they get free meds.

Leaving the other 40% with no appointments.

It’s not rocket science,

How does 60% get free prescriptions

Is it because people should pay and are dishonest?

My daughter is currently in hospital and I really feel for the staff. They work so hard under such chaotic circumstances.

Our local hospital had a bit of a crisis and there were literally no beds at all in the entire hospital. People were waiting in ED for 3 days.

@greengreengrass25
Under 18, over 60, long term conditions like diabetes, pregnant, on benefits, all qualify for free prescriptions. And if you have paid upfront for a year then every extra prescription is included.

I thought GP practices resisted being paid "by treatment" and wanted the "per patient" payments instead? Have they changed their mind?

I think payments per treatment/appointment is far better as it will pay the GP practice directly for what they do, just like NHS dentists, opticians, etc.

I know the theory of "per patient" was to encourage GPs to provide more education, be more proactive, etc., but I don't think it's worked.

It's also a bid odd that patients who barely/never bother their GP are cross-subsidising those who are never away as the GP practice gets the "per patient" funding for patients who don't go near.

"It's also a bid odd that patients who barely/never bother their GP are cross-subsidising those who are never away as the GP practice gets the "per patient" funding for patients who don't go near."

Nothing is static. You might not need GP services for years but then need more intensive support for periods.

You are obviously too young to remember the pre 2006 dental contract. We had to provide out of hours treatment up until 10.30 at night weekdays and weekends. Some primary care areas insisted on 24hrs. We had to open up our own surgeries and pay nursing staff to be on call or just open up on our own. We were advised to insist that a patient was accompanied or ( in my case if it was a male patient) provide someone ourselves.
Most practices organised on call rotas with other practices, initially the pagers were funded but with the advances in mobile phones we moved over to them.
We were paid for a call out and the patient paid for any treatment they received unless they were exempt.
We covered emergencies every day of the year.
When we moved to the new contract in 2006 emergency clinics were set up and run by community dentistry. The hours were very limited and they ran at a loss. These clinics have now disappeared and practices can offer limited 111 clinics. We have a contract to see a maximum of 6 111 patients a day. We see patients mainly from one area because there are no NHS dentists in this area. Although I have retired from NHS I am happy to help these patients who have found themselves without a dentist. Even private dentists in the area are at full capacity and cannot accommodate them. A significant number I see are more than happy to have treatment done privately after we have sorted out emergencies under 111. Mainly because I can usually see them within a week or two whereas they are facing up to 2 yrs in a waiting list for NHS. The way the dental contract works means that dentists have a finite amount of funding so NHS dentistry is rationed. We could see more patients but will not be paid for those patients.

I hope the pharmacists are more use than the ones I've seen. Earache - nothing I can do, see your GP. Sore throat - nothing wrong, tonsils are fine. They weren't, I had tonsillitis and needed antibiotics. They also wouldn't sell me thrush cream without me seeing a GP because I said it was the second time I'd needed it in a couple of months. If they'd bothered listening they would have known there were reasons for it.

That is frightening. I work in a special needs school, and a couple of years ago a child had a seizure. We waited 25 mins for an ambulance, her seizing the entire time. It was terrifying

Similar situation here. But we waited for 4 hours as the child came out of it but remained "unconscious" and breathing.

Another case of a dislocation we were told at least 7 hours before ambulance would even arrive.

I dread being called as first aider - not because of what I'll face because of the fear it'll be something serious and I can't get further help if needed.

@Kazzyhoward GPs have never been paid per treatment except for specific things like coil insertions, joint injections, which often require specialist skills or a separate clinic. It's always been on number of registered patients and then a bit more if you meet targets on asthma checks, diabetes checks. But if you don't meet the target, even by a % or so, you get nothing.
Yes there are patients who don't come in and 'subsidise' those who do but a practice would go bust without the low user patients. I can't make the finance work for my patient ( and many others) who decide to ask for a home visit or appointment every week. We need the other cohort to offset them.

This is most definitely the case with the front line in AE.
When I had terrible abdo pain I was quoted 10 hours for an ambulance.

On the other side of it.. DH has had excellent service when being treated for cancer..from GP.to post op checks.
Now he has a new health scare and in a matter of days was given an appointment with a specialist at a private hospital..(no charge) and offered a procedure within 10 days.

It remains to be seen whether pharmacists will, en masse, be happy to tell people 'no, this is viral, you can't have antibiotics'.

It's much easier to dish out antibiotics than have that conversation.
I have it multiple times each day.

I think every GP would gladly give up the capitation fee for those who don't come, in exchange for a system where we are paid for the work we do.

One person who comes every week makes up for many meny people who never come......

Fit healthy adult ringing the GP because they've had a sore throat for four hours for which they've taken nothing over the counter?

Parent on their fourth child who brings them in for every single cough and cold, no matter how well they are? Child is running round the waiting room when I go to call them?

People need a bit of common sense...............