Don’t have more kids if you can’t afford them!

[SportMum1982]

I’m not a raving Tory! But honestly I would have loved more children!!! I would have loved 4 kids but I know we cannot afford 4 kids.

Why do people expect the state to pay for their children? Bar education though! If I’m being really cruel tell me, but I feel I did want more kids but stopped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67999028

If we want to build policies that untangles the state from the income of families then it makes sense for that retreat to be universal, for all children - including those of smaller families.

When people say, you don't need three children, I'm wondering what exactly they need two for?

If it wasn’t for child benefit and income support, my brother and I would have starved as children. My parents didn’t provide anything for us except their DNA and the state raised us. I have been a teacher now for 26 years and have never not worked since I was 14. I think I contribute to society at all levels but hey, maybe I should have been left to fend for myself (if the attitudes on this thread are anything to go by).

Personally, I believe that the state should provide a safety net for all children, regardless of the configuration of their families.

I think this, two children good, four children bad is weird.

I don’t think either major parties are changing this which seems to go with high yanbu vote

We can't blame Covid for everything for ever more

Okay. £39 for two children if a four week month so roughly £20 each. Yeah not much of an incentive.

What exactly is so difficult to understand?

It's not child benefit, it's benefits for children - so the cap is within universal benefit payements.

Part of the issue is that deprivation and poor life choices begets more deprivation and poor life choices. Children raised in deprived circumstances are more likely to cost the state more as adults than those who aren't (illness, disability, lack of access to employment, criminal justice system).

Must be, lots of people unhappy not to get the full amount.

Sure, I respect that view, but is raising a child you can’t afford easier?

Besides ‘Muh religion’ is not a strong reason to bring a child into poverty and expect the state to foot the bill. Also if you’re so religious, make sure you take precautions before you find yourself in that state.

Being a good parent means making hard decisions.

Sorry, I'm not shouting, just formatted like that 😬

But why did she have 5 children? Did she not think things might change? Divorce, illness, death etc. Doesn't take a genius does it?

I understand why people find this frustrating but I have every sympathy for people on very low incomes with multiple children - it must be very difficult to support them and hugely stressful. I am a single parent to 2 and it's hard enough. In addition we do need more babies to be born as the birth rate in this country is declining so rapidly so unless it increases we will have even more of an issue with the ageing population.

So the poor or even the considerably above average paid in certain parts of the country can never have children? Got it. We'll just increase immigration.

All the people saying circumstances change … of course they do! And that’s what people should think about before having a 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc child (or even the 1st tbh!). Really, why do people need more than one child?

The 2-child benefit cap is, IMHO, a slam-dunk vote winner for those who subscribe to the notion that everyone on benefits is a life-long, professional scrounger who routinely churns out urchins to increase their benefits, which they then spend wastefully on cigarettes, alcohol and trips to Benidorm.

In the real world though, the percentage of people on benefits as a lifestyle choice is small and they are not living an extravagant lifestyle.

The cap is simply unfair to people who should be able to fall back on the social safety net of benefits that we are fortunate to have in this country. For every one person that is deterred from churning out urchins for benefits, how many genuine parents and their children will suffer? What about people who have more than two children and never anticipated having to rely on benefits? What about women who have unplanned pregnancies that put them over the threshold? Hopefully the intent was never to force women to have terminations that they would never have considered otherwise.

Finally, as we keep getting reminded, one of the major challenges ahead of us is our aging population. People are living longer and declining birth rates means there is going to be a shortage of working-age people to keep the economy in balance. We should be encouraging people to have children, if they are happy to, and ensuring those children have access to good quality education so that they can add real value to society when they become adults.

To be honest though, most of the people who don't plan for old age are the ones who don't plan for big families... And then you have the exponential effect of those children not planning for old age, etc...

I have only one due to secondary infertility. We are just bellow average for England combined income and I am very late 40s. I do not practice any form of contraception. So nobody can predict but I might have another one and my secondary infertility might disappear as it appeared , I have had a previous pregnancy before the birth of my only child. You never know what is in the lives of people and many people , even with one income can pull a nice little life with 2 or 3 kids

I fell pregnant with the baby I'm carrying because I went on a new medication, no note that it would make my birth control less effective. I am one of hundreds of women who have reported this with the new medication.

We're lucky that we can swing supporting an extra child.

I don't agree with women having child after child they cannot support, but I also don't agree with children being born that no one will support, if mum can't, dad won't, government won't, it leads to neglect doesn't it?
Then what? Does the government pick up the tab of paying adoptive parents much much more than they'd pay in benefits to the biological parents?

It's wrong either way really isn't it.

Agreed fully with what you said up there.

That's just child benefit Tax credits/ universal credit is significantly more

My high earning husband and I had five children. We were forced to move for his job, sold our house and couldn't find another to buy, our relationship fell apart (due to his behaviour) and I was left in rented accommodation with five very small children. He vanished, refused to pay a penny and I, hundreds of miles from family or any help, was forced onto benefits.

THAT is how it happens.

Incredibly sad. For both your friend and their 6 children.

Sadly it kind of proves the point being made. They wanted 6 kids and obviously had the money/lifestyle to support that.

Where was their life insurance? If he'd have had appropriate life insurance, she wouldn't be 'barely making ends meet'

I'd be considerably richer than we are now if my husband died. Mortgage would be fully paid off and I'd have nearly £1million in the bank to live on. We have just 2 children because thanks to paying insurances, we can't afford more.

So many people now just do things without thinking. Don't insure their homes and then a fire happens - just expect others to whip around with a Go Fund Me.

People just don't take personal responsibility anymore. They just don't.

I think this whole idea is based on the erroneous concept that living either partially or fully on benefits is an easy road to take.

Child benefit for additional children is a minuscule amount a week and you'd be insane to have a child just for the cash. Seemingly feckless people who have multiple children do so for many reasons including ignorance of contraception, wanting to have someone to love or to love them, chaotic lives, because they enjoy having babies and don't know anything else. They rarely do it because they want an extra tenner in their lives. If this their motivation then we should pity them not condemn.

Saying 'we didn't have children because we couldn't afford it' is irrelevant. Some people don't have the full capacity to make this choice.

For full disclosure I have four children. I've never claimed benefits but it's been hard. Really hard sometimes. Anyone trying to do it on little to no cash deserves support not condemnation.