Page 37 | Don’t have more kids if you can’t afford them!

SportMum1982 · 2024-01-31T12:43:04+00:00

I’m not a raving Tory! But honestly I would have loved more children!!! I would have loved 4 kids but I know we cannot afford 4 kids. Why do people expect the state to pay for their children? Bar education though! If I’m being really cruel tell me, but I feel I did want more kids but stopped. [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67999028 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67999028]]

C1N1C · 02/02/2024 14:55

To say 'men need to step up' is wrong. I think kids are like cars. Sure, both parents can use them, but don't have one if you personally can't afford the payments. That way, if your partner leaves, you're not left in the lurch.

That's not absolving men, don't get me wrong... they should pay if they leave, but I hate this "I'm struggling because he left" argument. Work hard, build a pot, keep it in reserve. Get married, split new finances (man can support if you're a SAHM), but if he leaves, you have a backup.

Serrina · 02/02/2024 15:05

threatmatrix · 02/02/2024 13:40

You don’t even know what I do and what I see every day, I’m around these low lives a lot so do not preach to me until you’ve walked in my shoes.
do you that 80% of Muslim men don’t work none of the lower caste women work and all have 5/8 kids who will also never work yet seem to have nice cars etc. the women then realise they can have freedom so run to a women’s refuge where they then get houses a lot quicker than families that have been here for years. Then because the men can be so dangerous each child gets a separate social worker ( how much does this cost?) then you have the social worker that realised it was the same children in three separate houses all being claimed for by three different women. When she reported it she was told to shut her mouth. I’m sure you will think I’ve made it all up but I really don’t care.

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So you're a racist as well as a snob. No surprise there 🙄

Mademetoxic · 02/02/2024 15:09

Mittemucci · 02/02/2024 12:01

Anyone who thinks a parent reliant on benefits is having more kids to get their nest lined by the state needs to give their head a shake
families reliant on the state have poorer health outcomes, lower educational attainment, worse job prospects and generally a poorer outlook on life in general (of course this doesn’t apply to every single child raised on benefits, just the average). The choice to have more children if you are on benefits It is very rarely a conscious choice, far more related to social capital, education and limited options.

cutting benefits just causes poorer kids, thus perpetuating the problem of “poor choices” which is ACTUALLY limited access to and diminished capacity to MAKE choices.

if you want to change a generation, give them the tools to change and financing experiences, necessities and education is very much a part of that.

Edited

Poorer health when they do not pay for their prescriptions, eye tests etc...

Yet people who are not on benefits and who work sometimes cannot afford these...

ruby1957 · 02/02/2024 15:33

izimbra · 02/02/2024 12:49

In fairness your post suggests you're someone who's given no serious thought or attention to the evidence around the impact of families not having enough money to cover basic living costs.

"We're not in the immediate post war period anymore and child benefit for that extra 3rd, 4th+ child in 2024 is not going to make diddly squat difference in reality."

Except the evidence - which you've obviously not looked at - shows it does.

It can be the difference between having to sit with the lights off one evening a week, or having electricity around the clock. It can be the difference between replacing a child's outgrown school shoes for a pair that fits, or sending them to school in tight shoes for a months.

BTW - the loss of benefits for a third child born after 2017 - that would put a family reliant on UC nearly £270 down a month. So a family that had one child born before 2017 and twins born after would get an extra £269 a month, compared to a family with three children where two were born in separate pregnancies after 2017. That's a big difference for people on low incomes. It's not an insignificant amount.

UC is intended to be a 'subsistence income' - ie, it's just enough to cover a family's basic needs. A family on UC with 3 children who don't get benefit for the third child by definition don't have enough income to meet their basic needs - and there are social, educational and health consequences for children growing up in a family which has insufficient income to meet basic needs.

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But they still get CHILD BENEFIT FOR THE 3RD, 4TH AND 5TH child. Just not the means tested UC child allowance.

Beezknees · 02/02/2024 15:50

C1N1C · 02/02/2024 14:55

To say 'men need to step up' is wrong. I think kids are like cars. Sure, both parents can use them, but don't have one if you personally can't afford the payments. That way, if your partner leaves, you're not left in the lurch.

That's not absolving men, don't get me wrong... they should pay if they leave, but I hate this "I'm struggling because he left" argument. Work hard, build a pot, keep it in reserve. Get married, split new finances (man can support if you're a SAHM), but if he leaves, you have a backup.

But that is just not possible unless you are wealthy. Very few people can afford to raise children on one income.

Midwinter91 · 02/02/2024 15:59

@Ibizafun parents who are professionals and tax payers are more likely to raise children who are professionals and pay taxes (and into pension pots). Parents reliant on welfare are more likely to raise children who rely on welfare. It’s part nature and part nurture.

The ‘upper classes’ are of course the worst type of people in the UK no denying that. And I’ve nothing personal against any family doing their best, but it is a worrying fact that upper working and middle class are having fewer children.

WestwardHo1 · 02/02/2024 16:06

Badhairdayagain · 02/02/2024 14:25

I agree wholeheartedly. Sick of the attitude of I’m entitled to benefits so society can pick up the tab for my desire to have more children. They get a 2 bedroom council house. Then breed 4 children (who are likely to be on benefits their entire lives because monkey see monkey do) then demand that they are given a bigger house to accommodate them. The unemployed should be prevented from having children. 😡

I'm sitting on the fence in this debate but I do find it interesting that you never hear the word "breed" in connection with well off people.

Beezknees · 02/02/2024 16:07

WestwardHo1 · 02/02/2024 16:06

I'm sitting on the fence in this debate but I do find it interesting that you never hear the word "breed" in connection with well off people.

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Or "popping out" children.

hairbearbunches · 02/02/2024 16:11

@WestwardHo1 I'm sitting on the fence in this debate but I do find it interesting that you never hear the word "breed" in connection with well off people.

Being well bred is not a term that has fallen out of common parlance AFAIK.

Ibizafun · 02/02/2024 16:11

Midwinter91 perhaps if the option of welfare was withdrawn from people before they decided to intentionally have children they can't afford, they wouldn't be raising children who in turn did the same?

Midwinter91 · 02/02/2024 16:13

@MidnightPatrol “I wonder how much of this is driven by peoples budgets being tighter than ever, and how much is it driven by the number of families opting for 3+ kids increasingly being those without work / very low income.

I don’t know anyone with three kids. Too expensive - can’t afford the childcare, can’t afford to stop work, can’t afford a house with four bedrooms etc. And we are pretty well off - the quality of life impact to have another is just too big. “

Totally agree, the ones who can afford lots of kids are the ones who aren’t impacted by childcare or housing costs. Because they don’t pay for them.

Beezknees · 02/02/2024 16:22

Midwinter91 · 02/02/2024 16:13

@MidnightPatrol “I wonder how much of this is driven by peoples budgets being tighter than ever, and how much is it driven by the number of families opting for 3+ kids increasingly being those without work / very low income.

I don’t know anyone with three kids. Too expensive - can’t afford the childcare, can’t afford to stop work, can’t afford a house with four bedrooms etc. And we are pretty well off - the quality of life impact to have another is just too big. “

Totally agree, the ones who can afford lots of kids are the ones who aren’t impacted by childcare or housing costs. Because they don’t pay for them.

The people I know with larger families have 2 working parents. I know one with 7 and one with 4. Myself and my friend who are both single parents have one child each, and I have a council property.

Lavender14 · 02/02/2024 16:36

threatmatrix · 02/02/2024 13:06

How privileged I am through hard work and dedication. Grew up on a council estate and went to the roughest school in the area for a while. I see the ones I went to school with four/five kids, no holidays, council flat, five different fellas, never worked. I knew from an early age that wasn’t for me but then I had decent parents.

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@threatmatrix the decent parents bit is the privilege in this instance moreso than where you grew up or what education you had. Having parents who love and are prepared to invest in and push you matters more than where you grew up or what school you went to. Which is, to me, the exact reason why families should be supported where possible to make ends meet to give their children chances. And why you should know better than to criticise your peers as lazy, uneducated and thick since you should know that they maybe haven't had the support that you've had in life. And therefore their outcomes have been different. Why punish them further for that.

ThePeaAndThePrincess · 02/02/2024 16:54

@Lavender14 that's the same determinism again. It is nonsense. The many people who had horrific, irresponsible, neglectful and even abusive parents who have grown up to be responsible, loving parents who prioritise their children and wouldn't dream of creating a child in a precarious and unstable situation proves that it is nonsense. It's really offensive to describe people like this as if they have no control over themselves and the choices they make. Yes of course it is harder to build a decent life if you have a terrible start in life. That doesn't mean it's impossible. To not even bother to try to do so and then inflict the same on children of your own by choosing to have them when you know you are in no position to offer them a decent life and avoid the trauma of your own childhood is unforgiveable IMO. And as I said earlier in the thread, that is entirely different to situations where unforeseeable/ very unlikely events suddenly change someone's circumstances when they have children already so they need help temporarily to get back on their feet. At least half of the disagreement on this thread is due to people (perhaps wilfully?) conflating the two which are entirely different and should be addressed in different ways.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 02/02/2024 17:03

WithACatLikeTread · 01/02/2024 21:43

What's your point?

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My point was that poster was being disingenuous.

SpicyMoth · 02/02/2024 18:47

WestwardHo1 · 02/02/2024 16:06

I'm sitting on the fence in this debate but I do find it interesting that you never hear the word "breed" in connection with well off people.

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"I do find it interesting that you never hear the word "breed" in connection with well off people."

Interesting is certainly one word for it, dehumanising and an abhorrent way of thinking seems more fitting in my books.
Jesus this thread is getting worse by the page, can't believe some of the things people are saying to be quite honest... Utterly disgusting - These are PEOPLE.

ScottishWaylander · 02/02/2024 19:03

Shadowsindarkplaces · 02/02/2024 08:55

Those are also the ones 'kicking out' their 16/17/18 Yr olds, particularly daughters, so that they get a flat. I thought it was urban myth until I saw 2 families do just that. Funnily enough, reconciled with daughters as soon as they got keys and had 'house warming parties' Total of 6 girls. It didn't work as well with the boy, he ended up on streets until they realised he wouldn't get one and he went home.

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16 and 17 year olds are not given flats. They would become a "looked after child" and be placed either with kinship carers, foster carers or, more likely, in a residential home with other young people.

Dacadactyl · 02/02/2024 19:21

izimbra · 01/02/2024 22:49

Can I check - nobody here who agrees with the 2 child cap, gets UC, child benefit or money towards childcare?

Because you've been on here saying that if you can't afford to have children without input from the tax payer, you shouldn't have them.

If I didn't get child benefit, I could still afford my kids. In fact the CB money goes straight into savings. If I needed CB to be able to afford my kids, guess what...I wouldn't have had 2 of them.

Mamaraisedadoughut · 02/02/2024 19:38

ScottishWaylander · 02/02/2024 19:03

16 and 17 year olds are not given flats. They would become a "looked after child" and be placed either with kinship carers, foster carers or, more likely, in a residential home with other young people.

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It certainly used to happen. I was one of those girls who was chucked out..in my case the child benefit and income support for me had stopped so there was no reason for my mum to keep me.

Nowadays, I think it's a bit different and to not house your child until 18 is viewed very differently and SS step in if a parent isn't supporting their child until 18.

Isabellivi · 02/02/2024 19:43

100% agree. It all boils down to your values and priorities. Children aren’t that expensive but I have been getting used stuff for years for environmental/ecological reasons. Many people don’t want to live in their means and I am shocked by how many people find the need to buy everything new. I get free and used items that are still perfectly good and not ashamed! That is awesome you have managed to make your work adapt to your children so they aren’t in child care.

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 20:14

Isabellivi · 02/02/2024 19:43

100% agree. It all boils down to your values and priorities. Children aren’t that expensive but I have been getting used stuff for years for environmental/ecological reasons. Many people don’t want to live in their means and I am shocked by how many people find the need to buy everything new. I get free and used items that are still perfectly good and not ashamed! That is awesome you have managed to make your work adapt to your children so they aren’t in child care.

Average cost of a child is £249,000
Maybe that is short change to you…

Rosinda · 02/02/2024 20:21

I'd be interested to know:

How much if that £249k accounts for things funded by the government like school?

How much does an adult cost to find per year compared to a child?

Buying secondhand is still a good way to reduce the costs of clothes, toys, furniture, equipment. You can get a massive bum bag of clothes for free, or you can pay £120 for the equivalent amount of clothes new from Tesco. And have to do that every few months!

Being eligible for childcare subsidies is a big one. If you have children when studying or on a low income, you'll pay £300 a month in nursery fees compared to £2k.

Newchapterbeckons · 02/02/2024 20:33

Rosinda · 02/02/2024 20:21

I'd be interested to know:

How much if that £249k accounts for things funded by the government like school?

How much does an adult cost to find per year compared to a child?

Buying secondhand is still a good way to reduce the costs of clothes, toys, furniture, equipment. You can get a massive bum bag of clothes for free, or you can pay £120 for the equivalent amount of clothes new from Tesco. And have to do that every few months!

Being eligible for childcare subsidies is a big one. If you have children when studying or on a low income, you'll pay £300 a month in nursery fees compared to £2k.

The costs now do not ever end at 18 these days. The costings only accounted for the first 18 years… but most parents are still paying long after that.

threatmatrix · 02/02/2024 20:40

Lavender14 · 02/02/2024 16:36

@threatmatrix the decent parents bit is the privilege in this instance moreso than where you grew up or what education you had. Having parents who love and are prepared to invest in and push you matters more than where you grew up or what school you went to. Which is, to me, the exact reason why families should be supported where possible to make ends meet to give their children chances. And why you should know better than to criticise your peers as lazy, uneducated and thick since you should know that they maybe haven't had the support that you've had in life. And therefore their outcomes have been different. Why punish them further for that.

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So throwing money at them, enabling their way of life all the while our taxes go up and up. I’m so glad you’re not in government.
ps
i didn’t realise it was a privilege to have normal parents 😂😂😂

hairbearbunches · 02/02/2024 20:45

@Lavender14 the decent parents bit is the privilege in this instance moreso than where you grew up or what education you had. Having parents who love and are prepared to invest in and push you matters more than where you grew up or what school you went to.

This is simply not true. There is a world of difference between having decent parents and having parents who are prepared to invest and push you. Plenty of people are decent parents but they still have no money and a lack of money equals a lack of agency in the main. For parents to invest in and push you, they need to understand the value of education themselves and this is middle class territory, really. Plenty of decent working class parents who love their kids and provide a safe childhood but their relationship with education and authority is very different. They don't know how to challenge things, they don't have sharp elbows, they just can't navigate the system in the same way.