Don’t have more kids if you can’t afford them!

[SportMum1982]

I’m not a raving Tory! But honestly I would have loved more children!!! I would have loved 4 kids but I know we cannot afford 4 kids.

Why do people expect the state to pay for their children? Bar education though! If I’m being really cruel tell me, but I feel I did want more kids but stopped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67999028

OK if you aren't interested why take part in a debate? Why are you here? Don't bother respond back. You clearly don't like what I have put... it's my opinion and it was directly aimed at you. If you join a discussion it isn't fair to shut it down and say your not interested. You're ignorant. Good day! Perhaps your part of the problem...

Er @Talk66talk are you actually ok? your behaviour is a little bizarre but maybe your just sleep deprived.

Why am I here? Why are you? I’ve posted quite a lot on the thread before I responded to you. Is that ok? As you said it’s a debate 😁. I don’t have to agree with everything you posted nor do I have to reply to every point you made. Disagreeing is not challenging you & it’s quite normal during a debate... And responding to one point but not having an option on your other points is not shutting things down!

I don't work. I study with the OU part time and in receipt of UC. It will take me six years to complete my course part time and I have no intention of working during this time as I have a busy family life too.

You aren't 'choosing not to work' as a blanket choice though, you're choosing to study and hopefully will then be working? If you don't plan to work then you will need some other means of supporting yourself, e.g. a partner. Good luck with Uni.

It depends on your view.

Is the 2 child cap putting kids into poverty. Or are parents poor decisions putting kids into poverty.

I think it’s both depending on the situation. And I think there’s never a guarantee that money actually changes things for the kids.

The cap has been in place for years. No one is having kids now and completely unaware. The information is available. And if they are having kids assuming they can claim more, that’s again bad planning.

Having more than 2 kids, is a risk. And people are aware of the risk.

I genuinely don’t know what the answer is. I don’t think feckless parents who never worked and who pretend their partner doesn’t live with them and so on, should be given more and more money to continue doing so. It’s not going to improve the outcomes for the children either. I live in a poor area and know people who do these things.

I also don’t, however, think most people on benefits fall into this category. Nor do I think not being on benefits is proof you aren’t a feckless parent.

But I do think you should consider worst case when planning your kids. But that’s because I was a child of a ‘worst case’. So I planned that way. Worst case hit and it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as it could have been.

Ooh, contraceptive advice from an expert, thanks OP. Everyone very grateful for this, it works so well.

If you don't work you can do the OU degree full time.

You're studying though. You can't choose not to work and do nothing and claim benefits, to be more specific.

Does anyone have statistics for how many people actually don’t work at all & have lots of dc?

I know there is about 3.5m one child families & 3.4 2 child families. 3 or more dc represent 1.25m & I assume the majority of them will have 3 as opposed to 6.

PP may have other commitments/personal reasons to do it part time.

I agree that the parents not being able to afford their children puts them in poverty from the get go, however surely we have a duty of care to ensure no child goes hungry etc etc. what I find surprising is the same people on here saying “tough shit, if people are struggling, parents should of made better life choices” are the same ones devastated when we hear stories on the news of children being extremely impacted by poverty.

I don’t have the answer, no one does but seeing a child go hungry, not clothed appropriately, living in poor conditions doesn’t sit well with me. I doubt many parents have lots of children just to “play the system” I think they are extreme and rare cases. Let’s be honest who wants to live on the breadline?

Do I think people should have children they can’t afford on purpose absolutely not but life isn’t blank and white. I also think this sort of thread, plus the two child policy puts the responsibility solely on the woman. It is based on the amount of children a woman has, not the father, why? Ultimately forcing the woman into poverty if she has more than two children, if her circumstances change etc not the father if he decides to up and leave surely this is just another case of gender in equality? As usually it’s the woman who is the main carer

I agree. It’s women and children that suffer the most.

I also agree about double standards. I recognise at least one username from another thread moaning about a potential 20% VAT on private school fees.

One thing I would add though is that this idea of people having children only if they can afford it is just NEVER going to happen. It goes against one of the most powerful human instincts there is. Mix that with any number of a multitude of individual, psychological, social and economic factors and it’s highly unlikely people aren’t going to procreate unless they can afford it.

It’s pretty abhorrent to knowingly allow children to grow up like this and actually not good for anyone if we have a generation of kids growing up in abject poverty. It will add financial strain further down the road even if you take out the human suffering.

Thank you😊 Yes I want to work after I gain my qualification, the point being to improve my chances of being considered for a job in the future after years being out of paid employment. It is ideal as it fits around the school day and I am being productive with my time. Studying keeps the brain cells active 💪

Unfortunately I can't do the qualification full time, the funding of the tuition fees are only applicable for part time study. I also need to work around a busy family.

Yep, I appreciate that, I was replying to the poster telling you how you should do things! 😀

I'd imagine it's very few nowadays.

People seem to be stuck in the past and think we're still in the days of tax credits. There's been a 2 child benefit cap for a long time, a PP upthread said they thought single parents didn't have to work until their children were 12 until "very recently" when that hasn't been the case for about 20 years. People seem to have very little knowledge and understanding of how much the system has tightened up nowadays.

Another person upthread was saying about a woman she was speaking to who lived in a council property and was going to ask to be moved to a bungalow in a specific area as well. Again, clearly no understanding of how it works - as a HA tenant myself it's actually laughable that people think you can just ask to be moved and pick and choose the property!

Sorry meant to add it's the Part Time Study Grant (PTSG) in Scotland which allows me the chance to study for free.

I’d love to see it too. I think these people are made out to be far more common than they actually are because it helps everyone to have this apparently huge amount of the population to blame for everything.

Thats why they made Benefits Street and why the media constantly hold up the rare examples for people to look at and get angry about.

You can if you lie about health problems. Say you are depressed and so anxious you can't leave the house so unable to work and how can they disprove it?

My neighbour has said this and been claiming for months. He does leave the house though to work cash in hand 5 days a week

Hardly an enviable lifestyle. He'll be living on a pittance. Benefits for a single man are not generous. I'd rather be working. The envy of those on benefits is just pathetic to me.

And of course, he told you all about it and the exact ins and outs. Very believable.

You have to invest if you want people to prioritise work over babies - actual working public transport, properly subsidised childcare, schools offering wraparound care and overall making sure girls are educated and believe they are worth more than popping out babies for some feckless bloke.
You have to invest to break the cycle of mums having children who follow the same pattern as them. I’ve seen ex-students outside schools with their prams at 16/17 destined to follow the same life as their mums. In one town loads of the staff knew loads of the mums from when they were at school.

Also there are people who know how to play the system and not work. There were plenty in DDs primary. Didn’t work, never worked. One of DDs best friends mum briefly had a cleaning job years ago and that was it, she’ll be 50 now. I don’t know how she manages with the COL increase. She told me she won’t work as ‘she doesn’t like people telling her what to do’.
Luckily her eldest isn’t the same and is at uni, which she was not happy about, she wanted her to stay home.

A lot depends on whether any disability benefits are being claimed, for child or adult. Disability benefits can provide exemption from caps.

Hardly an enviable lifestyle. He'll be living on a pittance. Benefits for a single man are not generous. I'd rather be working. The envy of those on benefits is just pathetic to me.

Has anyone said they envied them?

And benefits and a 5 day cash in hand sideline for a single bloke? Hardly a pittance.