Don’t have more kids if you can’t afford them!

[SportMum1982]

I’m not a raving Tory! But honestly I would have loved more children!!! I would have loved 4 kids but I know we cannot afford 4 kids.

Why do people expect the state to pay for their children? Bar education though! If I’m being really cruel tell me, but I feel I did want more kids but stopped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67999028

there is always going to be a lack of responsibility for certain sections. Look at healthcare or people not saving enough or anything for a pensions. i

That isn't the topic at hand. That fact you are deflecting is interesting. It's a tough pill to swallow to admitt you went on to have the 3rd child then the 4th knowingly your circumstances were poor in the first place. Some of the excuses are laughable. 90s kid here things were far different and cheaper. Childcare rules were much different for a start, the cost of holiday camps in fact back then I don't remember my primary school even having an after school club. My mother wasn't hounded by UC to work so many hours and faff around with childcare receipts to upload. Although she did work the majority of raising us. It's not just the money either it's all the strain and emotional side. 4 kids for 1 person to raise is way too many mentally.

It's disregarded because CMS can often be unreliable. I think the system should change and it would make a difference. The difference would be a matter of principle and perhaps a detterant for the men before creating a new family if he had to pay for his existing DC.

The CMS payments aren't high enough alone not to need benefits no, but it's a start.

That isn't the topic at hand Well I don’t think you can discuss lack of responsibility without acknowledging that there will always be an element of society that isn’t responsible just like not everyone “can” work. I’m not sure why acknowledging that is deflection, you can disagree of course.

We stopped at 2 largely due to time & finances but I can’t extrapolate my thinking to everyone as it’s naive. There really aren’t loads of feckless mothers having dozens of dc though statistically.

@fonfusedm you are jumping the gun. I suspect I've touched a nerve. Feckless mothers? I never once called any mother feckless at all. Let's not make this personal now.

I've shared my experience, if you want to bypass it thats entirely your own choice.

I have simply disagreed with you & have explained why. The point that there is a narrative running through the thread that there are loads of feckless mothers popping out dozens of dc was a wider point.
As I said you can agree to disagree, I’m not sure why that has triggered you or why you feel personally insulted…

I've shared my experience, if you want to bypass it thats entirely your own choice.

Im not interested in the fact your mum didn’t have enough time or energy for you, although you can have my sympathy. All I said was there will always be people who lack responsibility, I don’t see the point in not acknowledging that but as I said you do you.

I had 2 children, with my ex-husband who then turned out to be a controlling, mentally and emotionally abusive bully tied far too closely to mummy's apron strings. We're now divorced and I'm struggling financially. What should I do? Send them off for adoption?

There is a difference between a change in circumstances and irresponsible people who don’t step up. As a single mum in the current climate and being lucky enough to own my home rather than rent I have still had to ask family for help recently even though I’ve worked since I left school at 16 and I feel for those in a similar situation. As do I understand mums who want to stay at home but have to work because the household requires two incomes to survive, or those who have had rubbish changes to their circumstances meaning they need some support.

I do object to a close family member I have who has never had a job since part time bar tending at 18, has popped out 3 kids in quick succession, been given discounted rent on a large council home and free nursery hours for her children while I had to wait and has all the luxuries I can’t give my daughter because I don’t get any help because of my income.

I don’t begrudge the children at all and I can understand why these measures are in place, but it does make me angry at the system and people like her who milk it for all it’s worth!

100% maybe the stare supports and then goes after the father to recoup the money in an instance like this?

But you have 2 children so the cap doesn’t apply. Thats not what people are discussing.

It’s discussing choosing to have children over the cap and not anticipating a change in circumstance knowing the cap is in place. And also knowing the more kids, the more difficult a change in circumstance is.

What if he’s unemployed/claiming disability benefits/on a low wage?

OK if you aren't interested why take part in a debate? Why are you here? Don't bother respond back. You clearly don't like what I have put... it's my opinion and it was directly aimed at you. If you join a discussion it isn't fair to shut it down and say your not interested. You're ignorant. Good day! Perhaps your part of the problem...

I do object to a close family member I have who has never had a job since part time bar tending at 18, has popped out 3 kids in quick succession, been given discounted rent on a large council home and free nursery hours for her children while I had to wait and has all the luxuries I can’t give my daughter because I don’t get any help because of my income.

Despite the fact most of us whose lives aren’t restricted to middle class enclaves know of people like this, they ‘don’t exist’, and we’re just making it up because we mainline the Daily Mail, remember?

I'm not middle class. I live in a housing association flat and claim benefits myself. Still usually a load of nonsense.

I know of a local family with ten children. Ages ranging from 20 to 1. They have a fleet of cars outside their property. Live in a demographically poor area. They bought the house next door and knocked through it to make the property bigger for themselves to keep having more children so they all have plenty space.

I think if people are trying their best who are you to judge. I have four DC who are all well looked after. Wouldn't change anything.

There’s a difference between working people who have children and encounter financial difficulties out of their control, and benefit parents in council houses who continue to pop kid after kid out.

Nobody begrudges helping decent working folk who fall on hard times, because it can happen to anyone. But I do begrudge bone idle slobs who have never worked or have decided work isn’t for them having child after child that they demand the state pay for.
The reality is that kids who grow up in this environment are likely to follow the same pattern. They are not the children who are going to be the tax payers of the future, are they?

Another mum at school I know had her first at 17, then two in her 20s, one in her 30s. She's never had a job.

@Jifmicroliquid there are people in receipt of benefits and living in social housing who also work pretty hard - wages are often so low though that they get benefit top ups.

That I have no issue with. I’ve always believed that anyone working should be rewarded for it, if you show willing and are getting off your backside but are minimum wage paid, you should be allowed larger benefits as a result.

Its people who could work, even part time, but choose not to, that I have real issue with.

I don’t understand why anyone would agree with putting children in poverty? Because that is what the two child policy does.

We have 5 children but both DH and I are in high earning jobs (higher tax bracket) so although we have had more children than what Mumsnet deem as acceptable, I guess we are paying to support other people’s children.

I agree that people should consider finances etc before they have children and see if they can afford them, it is irresponsible not to but why should the children suffer for their parents poor choices?

Plus it’s also unrealistic to start policing the amount of children someone can/should have. Am I okay because I can afford them?

I know this is a money related thread but I also want to add that there has been a lot of stereotypical comments thrown around making out like no-one can manage 5+ children l, fyi…

We go on holiday every year
My children do swimming lessons
All do clubs
Have hobbies

Yes we have life insurance.

Just because you may not be able to manage 5 children financially/emotionally/physically etc doesn’t mean that others can’t, I do it very well and bloody love it.

If someone just 'chooses not to work' then they don't get benefits.

You cannot choose not to work if you are able to though. This is a myth.

Well there's this thread saying 'don't have them if you cannot afford them' and there's another suggesting folk on 100k+ incomes should get subsidised/free childcare. I find the two slightly contradictory.

Well you can choose not to work, but you generally won't get benefits to live on as a result of that choice. A couple may choose to live on one person's income whilst one parent is a SAHP.