Don’t have more kids if you can’t afford them!

[SportMum1982]

I’m not a raving Tory! But honestly I would have loved more children!!! I would have loved 4 kids but I know we cannot afford 4 kids.

Why do people expect the state to pay for their children? Bar education though! If I’m being really cruel tell me, but I feel I did want more kids but stopped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67999028

Can’t be true. It is more than the highest benefit cap for Greater London.
https://www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/benefit-cap-amounts

@SummerFeverVenice the person mentioned in that tale may be exempt from the benefit cap e.g if they receive disability benefits for them/one of their children.

@SummerFeverVenice
It would be interesting to see the statistics of those who found themselves on benefits whose circumstances changed after having children vs those who kept having children whilst already in receipt of benefits.

The former should get help due to circumstances out of their control.

@SummerFeverVenice
I'm absolutely telling the truth.
I didn't understand why she got so much either.

Child benefit isn’t much money at all anyway. Taking it away is a stealth pink tax imho because it disproportionately makes single mothers worse off than single fathers (90% of single families are head by the mother, not the father and CMS is a joke).

I'm from a background where having dc is encouraged. The benefit cap is definitely making parents reassess the situation. They know now their dds cannot be paid to stay at home for years, so she will need an education. They also know their ds' will be required to work FT, rather than becoming 'self employed' and working a few hours a week, so he too will need qualifications or a trade.

The cap does not apply if there is a disability payment within the household.

Lots of reasons that benefit cap might be disregarded. I could see how it was possible to have an amount that high if there high rental/ childcare costs, possibly disability payments. I would alsosay that entitlement isn't necessarily what you get. I'm entitled to £1600 ish but I get £400-£500 after they apply taper depending on whether 4 week/ 5 week month. I have two jobs and one pays weekly.

When you're not affectedYou’re not affected by the cap if you’re over State Pension age. If you’re part of a couple and one of you is under State Pension age, the cap may apply.
You’re not affected by the cap if you or your partner:

• get Working Tax Credit (even if the amount you get is £0)
• get Universal Credit because of a disability or health condition that stops you from working (this is called ‘limited capability for work and work-related activity’)
• get Universal Credit because you care for someone with a disability
• get Universal Credit and you and your partner earn £722 or more a month combined, after tax and National Insurance contributions

You’re also not affected by the cap if you, your partner or any children under 18 living with you gets:

• Adult Disability Payment (ADP)
• Armed Forces Compensation Scheme
• Armed Forces Independence Payment
• Attendance Allowance
• Carer’s Allowance
• Carer Support Payment
• Child Disability Payment
• Disability Living Allowance (DLA)
• Employment and Support Allowance (if you get the support component)
• Guardian’s Allowance
• Industrial Injuries Benefits (and equivalent payments as part of a War Disablement Pension or the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme)
• Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
• War pensions
• War Widow’s or War Widower’s Pension

If you are affected, the benefit cap might not start for 9 months - depending on your earnings.

It would have to be because they are already working or unable to work because they are disabled, older than state pension age, or caring for a disabled child. Those are only exceptions to the cap.

@FuckinghellthatsUnbelievable
Snap! Yes but the whole idea that if you choose not to work as a lifestyle choice you can get more than the benefit cap is what can’t be true.

Why do people on this type of thread always pretend the majority of people on benefits with large families are there because their circumstances changed?
Most bring their children into a life on benefits. I can only assume that most of MN does not actually know any families like this

But most people will understand why anyone going to work at 7:30 and returning at 6:30, and paying through the nose for child care and commuting is going to feel a bit disgruntled when they see the bottom line is less than her statement, for which she hasn't had to get out of bed.

I don't begrudge anyone a helping hand in their hour of need, but I do get stroppy when someone is making a career of it.

YOU are the reason we have a welfare state. Not the greedy twats who carried on having kids they couldn't afford willy-nilly.

I know, but it’s not like she would be getting more than the cap for choosing to “doing nothing” as a poster put it.

@SummerFeverVenice
Must be disability as she definitely didn't work.

I have a disabled adult son but as I work full time I get nothing.

? Pardon. It’s clear that she CANT just get out of bed and go to work outside the home. You can’t exceed the cap if you are working age, abled or not caring for a disabled child. That’s not a career choice.

I agree with OP. Unpopular opinion but quite a lot of posts are on the defence and it's likely because they know there's truth. We know people have twins, fall ill and so on.... but people have to take accountability. I would of loved another but my ex was rubbish from when DS was born and everything was left upto me!

If your son needed you home to care for him, you would get support.

Not sure we're discussing the same post @SummerFeverVenice .

Circumstances have changed for everyone, it’s just that families that were poor beforehand have fallen into poverty due to the housing crisis, the cost of living crisis, the loss of jobs due to Brexit, the increase in insecure, zero hours type jobs, the increase in dusability and ill health due to the collapse of the NHS…

It’s sickening that the failures of the government that have directly increased poverty is being spun as poor people choosing to be skint.

@SummerFeverVenice
He does need me at home but as he is an adult I would get carers which I think is about £75.00 a week. Plus rent paid.
I cannot live on that. You get no UC enhancement when your child is over 18.
A lot of carers of children will find out how poor they will be once they don't get additional money for children when they become adults.

I see your point @Naptrappedmummy but those reasons will always be there for people so there's no point pretending they won't, and realistically there's better ways I feel money could be spent that would help people retain work, have a better quality of life, better access to healthcare and education including reproductive education and resourcing and mental health support, community support services, family support services. When you're under a government that is consistently and intentionally under funding these services and resources then there's naturally going to be a knock on effect to the tax payer. The bit that fecks me off is that people get annoyed at those claiming benefits or who are too vulnerable to effectively family plan or who get 'caught out' for whatever reason despite all best intentions instead of at the government who created or at least mismanaged the issue and left us in a position where its untenable for people to have more than one possibly two children.

I'd also argue that while numbers of children receiving disability benefit is increasing, having a disability and receiving disability benefit doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to sustain employment - we've much greater awareness of a number of common disabilities now such as autism, adhd, depression etc that people wouldn't have necessarily got support for in the past. So I'm not sure that statistic alone is really telling to the future unless it's broken down by the nature of the disability and even then there's going to be a range of abilities within individual diagnoses...

My worry would be that with a population where we're living and working later, having less and less children, we're going to eventually risk hitting a point where we've quite an elderly population and it become difficult to fulfil certain taskforces especially given the intent by our current gov to limit immigration so the care we'll receive may deteriorate as well.

Sorry, we might not be. For clarity, I thought you were commenting on this post
A woman came in today with her proof of entitlement which was her UC statement.
It was £3800.00 for the month.

Exactly, benefits isn’t a luxury lifestyle, they are not enough when you are disabled or have a disabled child. And it’s not a case of people choosing to have a lie in and watch Netflix all day between popping out more babies.

Absolutely this, and also just to say that there's not equal distribution of resource across the UK either. For example where we are we don't get any help towards childcare costs bar the 20% tax. So our fees for a year are £11k for one child. That was the cheapest of 4 nurseries in our area. We both have good wages, work full time, own our own home and live fairly frugally, but we're still in a position where we are unable to have more than one child and its also incredibly difficult for us to move out of the 'starter home' we purchased to get on the property ladder. Our outgoings have increased so much that we've very little money left at the end of the month for non essential spends. I don't think it's right that two highly trained, reasonable earners who are good at managing their money are forced to choose between children or accommodation... that's really a government issue, not a reason to go after people in poverty - the demographics of people using food banks now has changed significantly- it used to be people on benefits, maybe with a gap in their benefits or who were otherwise vulnerable and now it's people who are employed full time and who cannot make ends meet. The nonsense about scapegoating the poor and the vulnerable just helps the gov avoid responsibility and helps the rich get richer...