If VAT is added on Private School Fees, then it will be added onto University fees as well

[AgathaCrispee]

Does it worry you that this new policy of adding VAT on educational fees will also be applied to university fees as well?

AIBU to think this will put university out of the reach of the majority of families who will support their kids through Uni?

Also, for those who do go the level of debt they will come out with will be really big.

If they can apply VAT to private school educational fees then they've setup a case for Independent schools argue that it must be applied to Uni as well.

Is this going to create a situation where only the wealthy can send their kids to Uni?

I'm wondering why no one is asking this question!!

@Lindaofoxford @SmashedPrawnsInAMilkyBasket

A tiny bit of googling will tell you that almost all universities have charitable status

The student loan thing is funny in that when its written off the tax payer picks up the bill. So if the loan included vat, the tax payer of the future would pay off the vat. Like current us borrowing from future us.

Level 7 is not an undergraduate degree. The people doing it will have already achieved a degree from a university. A degree apprenticeship is level 6 and requires a university.

I was actually thinking this when I read that post. Isn't that just increasing public spending that could be used in other areas?

Again trying to be astonished by the level of ignorance and prejudice on this subject, but I'm so tired of it

Not all charities are about people donating money for ill cats or homeless people, MOSTLY they are businesses providing a service without making money for shareholders, and ploughing any excess back into the service they provide. We live in a capitalist society, where innovation is (usually) applauded.

SO why shouldn't a business open up and charge to provide educational services on a not-for-profit basis? Fine, apparently, if it's a dance school, martial arts school, swim club or similar (which actually are usually profit making businesses) but dare to establish an institution that provides an EDUCATION that is not the bog standard one provided by the state, which is only affordable to people with loads of money because....well if I can't afford it then no one else should be able to either?????? Oh no I'm not envious, I just don't believe in it. Because...I dunno it feels wrong!?

OMG FFS and so on I give up

Universities are charitable status institutions, they are not essential, they are the same but people can't even be bothered to do a tiny bit of research about that before they go spouting on about charitable status of private schools

VAT on private schools is shooting ourselves (the majority with kids in state) in the foot and it won't even punish the people you think it will

Whatever you think about universities being non essential, most people and also the government would disagree, hence why there is a tax payer loan. It would be pointless to add VAT is that just ended up being paid by the tax payer anyway. Private schools are not considered essential by most people and people do not receive tax payer funded loan to go to one.

No
Private schools will not lose their charitable status under a Labour government.

Hang on, if some universities and private schools have charitable status then they would still be exempt from VAT given that Labour will not be removing that status.

Therefore, the VAT liability will only fall on those without charitable status? Wouldn't that just make the one with it more popular and over subscribed?

This proposal doesn't make any sense the more you dig into it!

Universities don't have charitable status. Neither should they and neither should bloody Eton and Marlborough!

No I think they are adding it anyway

@decionsdecisions62 yes they do, have a tiny Google it will take seconds

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/legal/charity.aspx#:~:text=Almost%20all%20British%20universities%20have,to%20deliver%20a%20public%20benefit.

Your worry shouldn’t be about whether they add VAT to university fees (they won’t), your worry should be that universities are chronically underfunded and they’re going to have to find the money from somewhere. Most likely by increasing the fee cap.

Universities don't have charitable status.

Even a quick google shows that this is not correct. They do. From the University of Birmingham :
“Almost all British universities have charitable status because their primary purposes of advancing education and research are deemed to deliver a public benefit.”

No. Education currently isnt vatable whoever provides it.

They plan to change the law to make education vatable. Its not clear how this will be written as they want to basically make compulsory age school education vatable who ever delivers it.

The charity thing's a red herring.

In theory, they could because both at present are covered by the EU concept of "no taxation on education"

Once you've decided to remove that concept, then it becomes possible - and for nursey fees too. Indeed there's even a school of thought that it's better applied to age groups outside CSA.

So we have to wait to see exactly how Labour propose to introduce this - it's a "devil in the detail" policy. And does indeed open the gate to changes to taxation on fees for other educational activities that are currently exempt

They can't do that unless the government let them. More might go private though.

@AgathaCrispee people don't like to dig. They go around making huge assumptions based on FA and then get upset when they are told how unbelievably ignorant they are on the subject. Of course it doesn't make any sense, it's about prejudice and idiocy and the policy will be carried through on the wave of 'most people think' when most people haven't the first clue about economics or charitable status or actually, private education beyond what they assume based on that photo of Boris and David Cameron looking like dicks in that photo from Eton

Yes, government will have to find some way to fund the failing university sector. Most likely by lifting the fee cap.

They aren't going to make something that is currently funded by the tax payer VATable though. What would be the point? That is the difference between private schools and universities, not who has charitable status.

Interesting first post @AgathaCrispee

Welcome to Mumsnet

I hope to god that you aren’t working for the tories in a paid capacity.

MN - I know you will delete this post pretty darn quick. But please can you also take a look behind the scenes too cause this post is problematic on many levels.

I agree it makes no sense.

I was just trying to explain its not the charitable status that makes them exempt from VAT. So if Labour get in, when they write the new VAT law, they will write it to cover private schools they wint just say 'vat on education' as universities provide education.

But most Universities DO have charitable status though

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/legal/charity.aspx
^^
Almost all British universities have charitable status because their primary purposes of advancing education and research are deemed to deliver a public benefit. This means the University can reclaim Gift Aid on donations, increasing their value by 25%, and that corporation tax does not have to be paid on profits made from research with a social impact.
^^
For me though, the difference is private schools only advantage individuals whereas universities benefit the whole of society particularly through research and knowledge transfer.

I know you will delete this post pretty darn quick.

Why? The possibility has also been mentioned on other threads. It’s a genuine question, given that universities and private schools both fall under the section of legislation which they are planning to change.

What an overreaction

I’d like to know what the position is