If VAT is added on Private School Fees, then it will be added onto University fees as well

[AgathaCrispee]

Does it worry you that this new policy of adding VAT on educational fees will also be applied to university fees as well?

AIBU to think this will put university out of the reach of the majority of families who will support their kids through Uni?

Also, for those who do go the level of debt they will come out with will be really big.

If they can apply VAT to private school educational fees then they've setup a case for Independent schools argue that it must be applied to Uni as well.

Is this going to create a situation where only the wealthy can send their kids to Uni?

I'm wondering why no one is asking this question!!

For those still thinking that Labour are removing charitable status, they are not:

"Labour has dropped plans to end charitable status for private schools, but said it would still remove other "unfair tax breaks" if it won the next general election"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-67487136

Goodness, feathers are really ruffled on here aren't they!

It's Brexit again, innit ?

Dream up some bollocks and claim it's either because of the EU (bendy bananas) or will be, because of the EU (microchipping budgies).

Then see the "headlines" explode as the algorithms get to work.

I'm just disappointed it was something so mundane and easily rebutted. Presumably to keep the spotlight of Labours plans to change the union jack to the rainbow jill. Because no one has mentioned that either.

It’s all bollocks isn’t it? Tory party HQ infiltration of internet fora is endemic. 😂

Uni is already out of the reach of many families. Fees alone are circa £9250. Add 9% pa interest on loan, this is £10,082.50. Rents are about the same. 2nd and 3rd years can be more dependent on local rents.

Once a family earning over £25000, maintenance loans are given on ever decreasing scale. £25000 is below average wage.

So, 3 x fees and maintenance in real terms is 3 x circa £20k per year so £60k. Obvs some live at home. Some do 4 years. £60000 x 1 year at 9% = £65400 and on it grows.

If YP drops out or is kicked out at any point in the year, the fees and rent for the year still apply.

Loan is deducted from earning at 1% once salary is £25000. So £20 pm paid off on an every growing debt, currently at 9%. Doesn’t sound a lot, but tax, NI, rent, fares, saving for mortgage…. Your YP forever chasing their debt.

It’s now 40 not 30 years before written off. YP will be 60+ by then and their own children finished uni with own debt. Many YP will only ever earn around average Uk salary, depending on their profession. This includes most vocations.

Taking time out to have children, travel, do further travel, manage sudden illness and 🤷‍♀️.

Degree apprenticeships are becoming increasingly competitive for this reason. However, the greater the privilege, the more chance of securing a DA. It’s simply the law of the jungle.

No degree, limited career opportunities. And on it goes.

For equality, we need employers to remove the degree prerequisite for even an interview for all but vocations that require specific teaching.

My son is doing a business related degree at sn RG. It’s so out of date. The course curator has clearly never worked in industry. For example, it positions HR as a friend of the employee. It’s not. HR works for the business. If he is to go into HR, he will have to learn the actual practice of HR on the job, so what’s the point of uni other than a big jolly?

A levels and Btecs are enough to demonstrate commitment to learning.

To conclude, university education is already beyond the means of many families. For others, it is a life long debt burden. We need to all look outside of our ivory towers when making self driven posts on forums such as this.

Apparently the OP is a ‘floating voter’!
And I’m the Pope.

It's an interest question.

University is private education. The universities aren't owned by the govt, and students (or their parents) must pay to attend.

In the UK, it is a luxury spending £30k minimum on a degree. So what's the difference? It is as elitist - if not more so - than private school, because it is possible to get a secondary education without paying for it. It is almost impossible to get a degree without paying for it. Social & economic class measurement are set by how far someone goes in education.

So logically VAT should be added to university fees too. That would be 'fair'. If it isn't, that identifies Labour's VAT on private school fees as no more than the politics of envy and spite.

Then we come to what is actually best for the UK. Ideally we should have the best educational facilities for as many (all) children as possible. And as many people educated to degree level as possible. Then we would have enough doctors and teachers and engineers and entrepreneurs to drive the economy forward healthily.

But instead, Labour seek to damage some of our best schools, drive some out of existence and reduce the number of children who have access to good education.

It is completely illogical. Instead, they should put the money they will waste on legal fees and courts and judges and legislation, and all the costs of moving 700,000 children, into funding state schools better. They should stop being so destructive and concentrate on what actually needs doing. Improving all schools.

Private schools are not a "perk for the privileged" to quite a previous poster. They're a commodity available to anyone who is willing and able to pay for them.

One does not follow the other, that’s not how our VAT rules work.

For example, a gingerbread man with chocolate eyes is VAT free. Add a chocolate belt and you pay 20%. The difference between private school and university is greater than the difference between gingerbread men with and without chocolate belts. And take a look at how nuanced the clothing rules are https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-clothing/vclothing3100

There just isn’t an argument that because one thing has VAT, another sort of similar thing also should.

It's a bit Baldrick isn't it?

Uni fees increase by £1500 VAT

Fee loans to students therefore have to increase.

Fee loans come from Gov. so will cost a lot more tax payer money.

But good news - there's extra money coming in from the VAT on fees.

The same money goes Gov -> SLC -> Unis -> Gov.

All we'd need is someone to point out that if the two middlemen were cut out it would be far more efficient

People have long been asking this question. I’m surprised you’re only starting to ask this question. Can we assume it’s suddenly getting close to home?

That’s pretty much the definition of ‘perk for the privileged’

University is private education. The universities aren't owned by the govt, and students (or their parents) must pay to attend.

State schools aren't owned by Gov either....

Uni is not private education. Unis are charities. Interestingly their status is being re-evaluated by OBR? ONS? Someone. Could have big repercussions for the sector (not for student fees though).

I wonder why you haven't enabled voting. This is pure, goady, scaremongering that makes no sense. YABU.

What is?

University is essential for many jobs. Degree apprenticeships still involve going to universities.

The debt is much harder on girls too, as you say, taking time out for kids and their pensions suffering more than men's as they don't earn as much. The system is already broken and unfair.

I just want Labour to look ahead and have more than 1 policy that has little earning potential. Maybe saying all medical related degrees from Nursing to Neuroscience (if going on to work in NHS for minimum of 5yrs) would be subsidised by the govt? Anything longer term that might actually give everyone an idea of direction.

UK universities are private institutions which are funded, in part, by the government. They do not receive funding for international students so those young people are receiving a private education in the U.K.

There has never been an instance where VAT has only been charged to non resident individuals and it would cause a LOT of problems.

There are also private schools that fit the needs of those with additional needs, many of whom attend have their fees paid for by their LA. What about military families who have no real option than to send their children to boarding school?

Then add in vocational schools, tutoring, sports, dance, art lessons etc.

I think it is going to be extremely hard to clearly define what constitutes private education and what doesn’t. The arguments justifying what’s in and out of the scope of VAT will take ages to iron out.

So whilst I don’t think VAT will be added to university fees, private schools will challenge the rationale. University is not an essential service open to all or required by law. Arguably a “luxury” item too?

But DA don't involve FT university attendance and are often delivered remotely. So yes it would be possible to VAT full time resident Uni courses.
Sorry I just don't trust any party not to back track etc.

University is a privilege. Not a right. And both are paid for privately.

I suspect this may well be a question asked in the House of Lords.

If you remove the educational exemption for one, how does it differ from tertiary education which is also an educational institution.

If university fees are £9250 for 2024/25, then in theory this could be £11,100 for 2025/26.

A jump from £27,750 to £33,300.

If we factor in accommodation and food/living at £15000/year, so £45,000 in total.

We're looking at £78,300 in debt when you leave university. I'm guessing a lot of this won't ever be paid back as it will be student loan, but its a heck of a millstone.

I'm ignoring the accusations of being a Tory campaigner. I'd ask the same question of any party putting this forward. It's the impact of unintended consequences that worries me.

I also name changed as I knew I'd get static but all these threads about school fees have got me thinking about wider consequences.

I also name changed as I knew I'd get static but all these threads about school fees have got me thinking about wider consequences.

of course you did.

They are. My son went to private school because I had the financial means. He would otherwise have gone to a perfectly good state school. I paid for him to benefit from smaller class sizes and access to more sport, drama and extra curricular. He is dyslexic and thrived better in this environment because it better met his needs. This was a perk of his privilege. As a result, he will thrive better and possibly be more happy and successful as an adult than otherwise.

It really doesn't matter whether you believe me or not, it's still something that needs to be talked about.

This just goes to show how little people understand.

VAT cannot currently be charged on education provision by eligible bodies.

Charitable status is a completely different issue here. It has nothing to do with VAT. But it goes to show how little people can read/understand and how easy it is for politicians to play emotive cards and manipulate the electorate.

To answer the question OP I'm fairly sure any changes, if thought through carefully (and that never happens unfortunately) will remove exemption from only certain providers so uni fees will be vat free still.