VAT on private school fees - will it change how you vote?

[Iwishicouldflyhigh]

Following on from the other interesting thread about whether it will be implemented, will this policy change how you vote either way?
For me - i've voted Labour and Tory over the years, but Tory for the most recent GE's. This year, i've been thinking seriously about how i'd vote at the next GE and it wasn't definitely a Tory vote - i was definitely a floating voter.
However, my children are at PS and so i will now most definitely be voting Tory (not just because how the VAT will seriously impact us - child number 3 will now not be going to the prep that we had lined up for her, she'll enter the local primary until secondary school - but how i think that it will affect schools negatively and children negatively).
I have a lot of left leaning friends who educate privately and whilst they cannot bring themselves to vote Tory, they won't vote Labour either at the next GE because of this policy.

It seems to me that this policy is only a vote loser (ie many Labour voters and 'floaters' who school privately won't vote for them at the next GE) and not a vote winner (ie i can't imagine that many Tory or 'floaters' will vote for Labour solely on this policy).

AiBU to think that Labour have really shot themselves in the foot with this idea?

This is completely true. I am friends with both labour councillors that privately educate and know of an mp who has told me unequivocally if his child hadn't got into the grammar they would have gone private in a heartbeat.

Yes also likely to be engaged so will bother to vote.

I don’t think not being able to afford private school fees which a massive majority can’t can in any way shape or form be described as hardship. No potential labour voter would ever think that.

If they are truly "left leaning" they won't vote Tory just so they don't have to pay VAT on tuition fees.

@coffeeaddict77 that is not what i said. Lots of dr's though at my kids school and teachers for that matter - they are historically left leaning and i don't think will be voting labour over this. Certainly from the conversations i have heard. There are petitions being shared far and wide - and people you wouldn't expect are signing them.

In any event loads of schools have had capital spend programmes in recent years so the take won't be what people are expecting.

Politics of jealousy.

Me too.

I know plenty of doctors some of whom send their children to private schools. Regardless of whether they agree with VAT on school fees, the ones are "left leaning" won't vote Tory just to avoid VAT. They are too worried about the NHS to do that.

Many young middle class families do vote labour. I can't quite imagine that because of this policy labour have pulled away votes from the tories but maybe they have.

I'm in a location with a swing seat. I'm a lifelong labour voter and they will (I'm assuming they'll be in) add £200 onto my monthly bill with this policy.

I don't agree on taxing education at all. Like many other European countries.

I won't vote Tory, but won't vote labour either.

And one thing I've noticed from the private school my DS is part of, is that parents/grandparents/staff/ex-pupils are angry, yes they are a very small minority, but that minority will vote in a high percentage.

Probably won't change anything but worth noting.

I am always amazed when I read these threads how everything in the labour manifesto is pulled apart and analysed. Has anyone done similar to the Tory manifesto? Has anyone considered their policies and the impact they are having and will have on society. If you vote Tory as a protest because of vat on school fees you are voting for more of the same, you are voting for a society that supports the tory ideology. Own your vote and stop saying it is only because you are against this or that from the labour manifesto. The very idea that someone would vote tory but not admit is pathetic.

Is there anything else they are angry about that the Tories have done to the country over the past decades or just how one labour policy will impact their pocket?

@Dulra I do not know what each private school parent is angry about, but yes, I'd say a direct hike in expenses by hundreds of pounds every single month has made them angry - and all for a 'good slogan' policy that will make inequality even worse. Oh and the whole hypocrisy of it all.

By the way, I'm not voting Tory, but the question was asked will it change people's votes, and yes for many private school parents and stakeholders it will (although I doubt that'll make much difference).

A society more elitist, could it get any worse? Oh actually it could, if the current trajectory continues. the ONS in 2020 calculated richest 10% of households own 43% of all wealth, poorest 50% hold 9%.

Disposable income of most households in the UK (2022) was below the Mean income of 32,300!

References to the 'Middle Classes' being impacted by this policy are deliberately misleading as the wealth of the middle class has correspondingly seen a considerable drop in standards in the UK. I am middle class, I work in data/privacy, my DH is very senior in Architecture, like many of our peers, who are actually from backgrounds of parents with money, we were teenagers in the 90s, none of us can afford private school and three of us went to private school in this friendship group of 20ish, such is the demise of the professional classes! This country's economy has been decimated by the Conservatives, Brexit is largely responsible, anecdotally I know very senior people who work in the City who voted Tory last time not doing so this time as we need a change, the economy's health is at stake with such inequalities that are being perpetuated at every point! For the love of God look at the bigger picture!

For those saying that left leaning voters who disagree with this policy won’t vote Conservative, they might not. However, it might mean they don’t vote Labour either. There are other parties, or indeed the option of not voting at all.

Look around you the race to the bottom has been ongoing for the last decade! The RDHI per person (a measure of living standards) has seen the biggest fall of 4.3% in 22-23 since ONS records of began in 1956!

Stagnant wages, housing crisis fuelled by Tory policies, eroded public services, child poverty and homelessness that that are akin to Dickson's Victorian England. Tuition fees have tripled, the economic mismanagement under the Tories has brought plenty of 'hardship' for many families, a hardship that is probably incomparable to that of the 6 % paying for private school.

It's a lot more than 7% of children that this impacts as this is impacted by a lot of children using state school while younger - 18% of children by 16 are in private school and families which plan to move their children to independent school in the future are also unlikely to be keen on this policy.

That is a lot of families (and clearly not just the most wealthy) - it's also possible others involved with the school such as staff would not want to vote for this policy as it could impact job security, payrise possibilities ect.

There are also a lot of families which have one child in independent school and other(s) in state school.

"There are around 2,600 independent schools in the UK,[2] which educate around 615,000 children, some 7 per cent of all British school-age children and 18 per cent of pupils over the age of 16"

I am hopeful that as the election comes nearer this is a bigger issues because at this point it's easy to suggest you would vote labour based on wider policy but this will have a big negative impact on so many families and schools.

It feels like the intention behind it was to try and cause a divide in the population and therefore win votes on one side - the problem is the lack of opportunities in state schools and this policy does nothing to improve that for anyone but tries to suggest to parents that other parents who may use independent schools are to blame.

Nothing else similar has VAT on - VAT is not charged on sports, tutors, books, education (and sooo many other exempt categories such as Gambling and Antiques ect) Not everyone can afford any of these things does that mean VAT should be added.. no . VAT isn't made to try and redistribute wealth because the type of education is seen as expensive anything within a category would be the same rate - income tax, inheritance tax, benefits ect do this. It's misleading to suggest schools are getting a "tax break".

There are some children in independent schools which will have had more sports lessons, drama lessons ect - if as a result of this they go onto the state secondary schools I expect they will end up taking a higher % of the places on sports teams, main parts in the school play, places in the top sets and it will lead to less opportunities all round, I can't see it will realistically make any money in fact it will probably cost money, and remove choices for parents, and make our education system in the UK less competitive globally.

Hopefully the policy gets dropped or somehow labour do not get in..

@Another76543 The links I gave you are the correct links which show the calculations including those based on where you live. You can only get that information from a government website. It asks which Kommun / Municipality you live in etc. Those figures are correct as they are from the tax office. The only other website to almost mirror the tax office is https://nordisketax.net/pages/en-GB/taxation/?country=sweden&topic=tax-calculation-examples

Which states - The calculation is based on Helsinki municipality tax level (5,30 %) and the progressive state tax in 2024. So that has been taken into account.

I lived there. It is higher but not as high. For a higher earner it's not too dissimilar to the UK, the only difference is the government paid private school fees for us as well as nursery fees. We got some money to pay towards the nanny and any work done in the home, we also got child benefit, free piano and violin lessons via the Kommun, very good healthcare including privately which the government contributed towards etc.
For example DD needed to see a specialist once, we just called a private hospital, appt booked for next day and we didn't need to pay a penny!

In the UK we pay for all this out of pocket. Including school fees, It's a lot more than the difference you save in taxes if I was on lower income.
For example
If you truly believe on 100K in Finland you pay 48K taxes - which is wrong by the way as it's likely 31-33K , but let's run with it.
In the UK on 100K you said 32K taxes - that's a saving of 16 K per year per parent if you are not single.
For 2 children in the UK, private school - I will go with the average. £15K = £30K, no child benefit as you wouldn't qualify, no help towards childcare, no Free university, £30 per hour per week music lessons for each child for once instrument, £400 a month private healthcare, no tax credits, If you have another child likely £14K a year in nursery fees. 2 weeks parental leave - mine was unpaid in the UK vs over 400 days paid.

To be honest it just doesn't compare. To afford the same quality of life in the UK you would be financially worse off. It's making me re-think why we are here. I need to reflect a little.

The 18% at 16 is misleading as loads in the state system move on to other non Alevel courses- apprenticeships etc.

It’s 5.9% and only a tiny minority will be impacted. Less and less will be sensibly not considering privately educating their kids anyway due to the cost of living.

So what, what is your point?

To minimise 'hardship' for the families this may impact, why can't private schools just cut their cloth accordingly, like everyone else has to at the moment increase teacher/pupil ratio so more akin to state schools or apply to convert to an Academy!

Well if the school is that poor as a business it could always cut its cloth like other businesses have to.

@Goldenbear what do you think of Reeves’ no bonus cap?

Are you more about inequality or more a pro Labour thing

It’s seems like an ill thought out publicity stunt. Those that pay school fees still pay for state education. The VAT collected goes into a general pot and will not be ring fenced for education. There will be no extra money available for the increase in state pupils. If significant numbers abandon the private sector the state sector will be under pressure, probably concentrated in specific areas.

I suspect it will be shelved in bureaucracy for the next few years when the civil service explain, in simple terms, to the incoming ministers the actual implications of the policy.

What is stopping me voting for Labour is their policies regarding women. Every time I think that maybe they are the party to lead us through the next half of the decade they just let themselves down. I’m not too sure how well they would cope with the escalating situation around Russia and the Middle East. either. I would like to hear their defence policy. And of course we all know that Labour’s solution to the crisis in the NHS will be to insert multiple levels of management. Having worked for the NHS for 40 years, historically it’s just what they do best.

Why aren't these parents who are so concerned about the vat payments not querying why private schools are so expensive in the first place? I am Irish and our most expensive fee paying school in the state is €10,000 per year (for non boarders) the majority of fee paying schools are between €5 to €10k per year. Maybe these parents should look to their schools and find out why they are paying so much? And maybe work with the schools to bring down fees as opposed to spending their energies criticising labour and voting tories in again

I’m not too sure how well they would cope with the escalating situation around Russia and the Middle East. either. I would like to hear their defence policy. And of course we all know that Labour’s solution to the crisis in the NHS will be to insert multiple levels of management. Having worked for the NHS for 40 years, historically it’s just what they do best.
Do you feel the tories will do better with these issues? Genuine question

Err you made the comparison, not me.

Bottom line is the UK tax burden, overall, is lower than pretty much all other European countries, hence we have lower standards of public services, including education.

You ve now moved your argument onto global Corporation, does sound a little like "someone else has to pay more, just not me.."

However, its not just Apple etc, its Tesco, the UK banks.. all make super high profits yet many staff claim in work benefits.

The NWM needs to be linked to profit... maybe it cannot be but i'd like to see companies that fleece the public forced to pay their workers far more, so a: they don't claim tax credits and b; pay more income tax themselves.