VAT on private school fees - will it change how you vote?

[Iwishicouldflyhigh]

Following on from the other interesting thread about whether it will be implemented, will this policy change how you vote either way?
For me - i've voted Labour and Tory over the years, but Tory for the most recent GE's. This year, i've been thinking seriously about how i'd vote at the next GE and it wasn't definitely a Tory vote - i was definitely a floating voter.
However, my children are at PS and so i will now most definitely be voting Tory (not just because how the VAT will seriously impact us - child number 3 will now not be going to the prep that we had lined up for her, she'll enter the local primary until secondary school - but how i think that it will affect schools negatively and children negatively).
I have a lot of left leaning friends who educate privately and whilst they cannot bring themselves to vote Tory, they won't vote Labour either at the next GE because of this policy.

It seems to me that this policy is only a vote loser (ie many Labour voters and 'floaters' who school privately won't vote for them at the next GE) and not a vote winner (ie i can't imagine that many Tory or 'floaters' will vote for Labour solely on this policy).

AiBU to think that Labour have really shot themselves in the foot with this idea?

An educated population is in the interests of everyone!

But only if they’re educated in the state sector?

Missed the point entirely, private school is not available to 95% of the population so even if you pay private school fees, it is still in your interests to pay taxes for state education!

I think you continue to miss the point. For the hundredth time, no one is disagreeing with that- happy to pay income tax for the greater good in any area that it is needed! What we are disagreeing with is paying over and above income taxes and school fees when high earning state school parents could be contributing more themselves to improve the state school system their children are being educated in!

Where have I said that I don’t want to pay taxes which pay for state education? I already pay those taxes. What I do object to is being penalised through the tax system for not using the state education system which I’m already paying for through the existing tax system. There would be an argument for imposing VAT on fees if we received a credit for the state education cost. I would happily pay the VAT on fees if I was given a £6,000 credit per child. A basic level of education should be funded for all children. I’m happy to pay fees on top of that, and VAT on those fees.

When you say that private school isn’t available to 95% of people, this isn’t correct. There are plenty of people using the state system who could afford the private system if they wanted (they are often on Mumsnet).

You said that an educated population is in the interests of everyone. I agree. So if education is a good thing, why are you so keen to penalise it? A privately educated child is beneficial to wider society in the same way that a state educated child is.

So those who slide in on a Shrimp sandwich should not be paying VAT on their luxury education but parents who are high earners 'should' pay more via a means tested mechanism? Sounds really fair.

It's all in the language you use though- you call it a penalty, I call it a fair payment for an optional luxury good that you choose to buy, if you don't want to make that additional payment, choose a state education for your child like the rest of us do and no, it is not an option for many high earners at all, due to differences in 'Wealth' distribution, if you believe that you need to pop the bubble you are currently occupying and take a look around at reality for the majority!

This is what the thread is about isn't it? I'm sticking to the question and you have extrapolated from that a whole heap of condescending assumptions!

It’s just being realistic

It will bring in very little and won’t do what you are expecting

But part of that education is a necessity. A basic education is a legal requirement. Why should I pay VAT on something which is a legal requirement? As I’ve said, I’ll happily pay VAT on the luxury element, as long as I get a credit for the compulsory part (other countries fund private sector with regards to the compulsory element).

People who don't want to pay will always argue that it will bring in very little. It doesn't mean it's true. I think it is worth starting with a 10% VAT rate and see what happens.

Where did I say I would be paying?

I still can see it will bring in little

It’s a gimmick by Labour

So receive your legally required education via the state system then surely? No one is stopping you doing so. Why should the social advantages that come with your choice only be afforded to your DC?

You will either be paying or you have another agenda for not wanting people to agree with a potential Labour policy.

I’ve been direct enough it’s down to behavioural impact

Scroll back if you missed it.

Private school parents have stated on this thread that they will now vote for the Conservatives over this one issue. You are lambasting people (falsely as many are not voting for Labour based on this one issue) for voting for a 'gimmick' but don't apply this reasoning to those voting for Conservatives over this one issue!🤔

Not really getting that one

But for the avoidance of doubt I think it’s a poor policy that is masking lack of funding and appeals for non economically sound reasons

I'm not sure what you mean by that. What negative behavioural impact will the policy have?

I was listening to a piece about tax and I was surprised to learn the treasury use a static model not dynamic for understanding what will happen

This means a tax is lumped on and no thought is given to what behaviour change occurs due to it

This was incredible to me. You can see behaviour change all around you from the small to the large - reduction in CT in RoI is a good example it brings in more tax receipts with a reduction

What people post about in terms of expectations far outweighs the amount that will be brought in

Same with Nom Dom one - and they list a plethora of stuff they think will improve

I can’t see it. Numbers wise it is way out.

If the state alternative was half decent, I would. Unfortunately, many areas of the country don’t have good schools. Our local primary is in a nice area, assessments at reception and Y1 show a much higher than average attainment, and yet by Y6, they are hugely underperforming the average. It’s a disgrace that some children have to attend poor schools. Every child deserves a great education. Going after the private sector is not the answer though.

You haven't answered the question- what negative behavioural impact do you think a policy of adding VAT will have?

Behavioural impact = people changing behaviour eg choosing state

That could have outcomes like house prices going up to access good state, we have this here it’s a bun fight already people get priced out

Plus closing of small private schools if they can’t handle the increase and damaging the sector. No other sector would happily take 20% on top in one year and say ok

People feeling maxed out tax wise and opting out of this high tax burden

Overall though really no where near what people are expecting in terms of funding

An interesting footnote to this debate. We've just been turned down for a place at state 6th form college because they are full. Ds is on track for 7s and 8s at GCSE but apparently they are choosing pupils on proximity so he's not got a place.

There isn't another state 6th form in North Hampshire that offers Maths, Physics and Material design A levels, for engineering at Uni.

If they can't cope now, how are they going to cope if Labour applies the extra 20%.
We won't have a hi-tech, hi-wage economy if we can't even provide places for children to train as engineers.

Going private is literally the only option where I live !!

Is it the material design that’s causing the issue we that to me sounds quite niche. Could he do maths, physics and another subject at a state 6th form

I don't think it would be a bad thing at all if more children go to state schools rather than private schools, particularly if MPs children go to state schools. I don't think it will happen suddenly either if the VAT rate was 10%.

@Morph22010 There's one possibility 18 miles away. He could take Maths, Physics, Chemistry.

Materials Design is basically DT so not that niche.

I'm now applying out-of-county in an attempt to find somewhere.

I rang Hampshire Education Authority this afternoon for advice and was told it's not their problem, they only do education to 16, and couldn't help, I should Google. 😮