VAT on private school fees - will it change how you vote?

[Iwishicouldflyhigh]

Following on from the other interesting thread about whether it will be implemented, will this policy change how you vote either way?
For me - i've voted Labour and Tory over the years, but Tory for the most recent GE's. This year, i've been thinking seriously about how i'd vote at the next GE and it wasn't definitely a Tory vote - i was definitely a floating voter.
However, my children are at PS and so i will now most definitely be voting Tory (not just because how the VAT will seriously impact us - child number 3 will now not be going to the prep that we had lined up for her, she'll enter the local primary until secondary school - but how i think that it will affect schools negatively and children negatively).
I have a lot of left leaning friends who educate privately and whilst they cannot bring themselves to vote Tory, they won't vote Labour either at the next GE because of this policy.

It seems to me that this policy is only a vote loser (ie many Labour voters and 'floaters' who school privately won't vote for them at the next GE) and not a vote winner (ie i can't imagine that many Tory or 'floaters' will vote for Labour solely on this policy).

AiBU to think that Labour have really shot themselves in the foot with this idea?

Exactly this.

We’d be worse off with higher school fees to pay. Such a glaringly flawed policy, but punishing ‘the wealthy’ is always a vote winner for Labour. Even though they don’t seem to (want to / be seen to) understand the difference between extremely wealthy people and people doing slightly better than average. They already got rid of most grammar schools, and that was penalising people for being academically bright. Labour are always bringing people down rather than promoting people to aspire.

More importantly Labour can’t define what a woman is. Until they can accept biological fact they’ll never get my vote again

It really isn't, and I say that as someone who is GC.

Being annoyed about TWAW is not particularly stronger in women than it is in men, IME. And most of those of us who are annoyed about TWAW are not going to make this their defining issue when it comes to deciding who to vote for. I certainly am not. The general mood in the UK has been one of pushback against TWAW in any case, and Starmer is not hard-left or especially worked up about identity issues, so this pushback tendency is unlikely to change under Labour.

where I live its SNP or Labour so I'm voting Labour. Very few people PS educate here and our education system is rather different anyway.

The vast majority of children are state educated. As someone who categorically believes that private schools should pay VAT if state schools do it’s a vote winner for me. I work in a role that allows me to hear a lot of views on education including this topic and I’m confident that the number of privately educating parents who will be put off voting Labour (& they are definitely there although not the majority of that minority even!) is massively outnumbered by the state educating parents who don’t see why Eton gets away with not paying VAT. I get that parents with children at private schools will be miffed when the increased cost of paying VAT gets passed on in the fees but it actually is about parity and equity. There’s no reason private schools don’t pay VAT when state schools do and the ‘charity’ argument simply doesn’t stand up.

It's all relative though, isn't it?
To someone living on the streets without the money to buy a coffee, being able to save 18k a year IS rich.
To a billionaire, with a yacht in every port - you are poor.

We don't save anything like £1500 a month - if you do that year on year, you must have a huge nest egg. We have been saving up since our children were born to send them to PS as we both went to terrible schools - so the difference is that the equivalent of our £1500 a month went on fees and yours is for whatever you are saving it for - this perfectly illustrates the point that many are making: it's a choice where to spend your money.

How would you feel if Labour said that they are going to tax (again) those savings at 20%? Would you feel it unfair? UnJust? That's how those who privately educate feel.

Thank you to everyone who has commented, it's been a really interesting read.

Me personally - my DP and i went to failing secondary schools, which is why we have prioritised PS for our children - but the older ones went state until 8 (the younger is still there) and so i've got a lot of experience in state education.

I don't believe that PS should have to charge vat - but i DO think that they need to be made to do more for the local community - and publish what they do (because our PS actually does more than i'd thought) - i'd like to see the states being able to use their cooking/science facilities, integration between the schools etc.

There is a lot that our PS school does which the state could do (IMO) which would really improve the state school.

So i think that reform is needed - NOT increased taxes.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding around this subject.

Labour are proposing to make fees subject to VAT. This is payable by parents, not the schools. That is output VAT.

As someone who categorically believes that private schools should pay VAT if state schools do

Input VAT is the amount paid by schools on goods and services etc that they buy. At the moment, state schools can reclaim that VAT so effectively do not pay it. Private schools cannot reclaim it. This would change if fees become subject to VAT. At the moment though, private schools are paying VAT whereas state schools are not (the opposite of what many people think)

Private education is a ‘luxury good’. Nobody needs to have it - there is a state free at the point of access option. If you choose it, I don’t see why you shouldn’t pay VAT. It’s just closing an unjustifiable tax loophole for me. I do get that nobody currently paying for private education is going to be happy about a 20% increase in fees. I hope that Labour think about the timing of bringing it in so that parents have time to decide if they can afford that and if not, can find a state school place at the beginning of a school year because children shouldn’t have their education disrupted with a mid year change that isn’t necessary. Politically though, they’ve done the maths, the numbers of potential votes to be gained from state school parents who will be happy to have a seemingly unfair loophole closed will be much higher than those potentially lost (as in of that cohort of private school paying parents who may have voted Labour rather than definitely voting elsewhere anyway). I’m a floating voter (though never Tory! Just for full disclosure 😝) and it’s one of the policies that definitely attracts me to vote Labour this time. Thanks for posting this question - some really good discussion in the thread.

Redressing the anomaly that private school fees, despite being a luxury service afforded by a tiny fraction of parents (~4%) don't have VAT applied, is just the right thing to do.

VAT on schools will allow a 2% increase in state school spending, £1.3-1.5bn. This money is much needed. Any money is much needed.

This is the estimate when you assume a chunk of private school kids move to state etc.

If I weren’t already voting Labour (I am!) this would make me even more inclined to vote Labour.

OP I love how you’ve dismissed that survey as “wrong” based entirely on the anecdotal evidence of your mates. 😂

People vote for taxes that others will have to pay.

In this case it is quite remarkable that people talk as if it is an obvious fiscal move to bring in VAT on fees when in fact it is illegal to do so in the EU and does not happen in a single other country in the world. If it was such a clear and obvious policy why has not a single other country ever implemented it?

Sadly as most of the country are not net contributors this will continue to get worse. I just hope those short sighted souls realise that while they may now be in the majority as non net contributors, if you follow this strategy through to its conclusion you’ll end up bankrupting the country. Good luck finding someone to fund you then.

It is weird that private schools elsewhere aren't subject to VAT. Any idea why @Charlie2121?

People vote for taxes that others will have to pay.

Of course. Grabby but with this one people seem to think it’s a superior want

No one offers up their own money, just someone else’s

But you're right, people vote for taxes they don't have to pay and for cuts to services and benefits they don't have to use.

The pendulum swings back and forth between the two. After 18 years of Tory low investment in public services people could see they were broken in 1997 so voted labour, labour turned things around quite a bit but the financial crash cost so much people got spooked and the idea of slashing investment took hold. Now after 13 years of Tory austerity and underfunding things are a mess again.

The challenge is that austerity, covid and inflation (mostly externally driven) means the money isn't there now to invest. Creative ways to find money are needed. As well as creative ways to drive improvements in services that don't cost as much.

Sadly as most of the country are not net contributors this will continue to get worse. I just hope those short sighted souls realise that while they may now be in the majority as non net contributors, if you follow this strategy through to its conclusion you’ll end up bankrupting the country. Good luck finding someone to fund you then.

And this. As people ask for more and more opt out, I’m glad we have an alternative.

Private schools pay a lot of VAT. At the moment they are unable to reclaim that VAT whereas state schools can. This means that state schools are in an advantageous position on VAT compared to private schools.

There is a lot of confusion on this proposal.

Eh? I haven't dismissed any survey, no clue what you are talking about?

'I think they've got that wrong - there are lots of left leaning parents who educate at PS.'

If you are referring to this post of mine - i was replying to someone else, not the survey post.

Apology accepted!

I think we can all agree that we’d be most happy to send our kids to whatever state school Keir sends his kids to, or Tony Blair used. I bet they’re not your big standard comp.

Are you sure?

There's no reason why schools that are businesses cannot be VAT registered, and therefore be already able to reclaim as you suggest. Fees are exempt, but they may well reach thresholds in other ways - look on websites, the numbers are there.

Schools that are charities have different treatment for their business end, but looking at websites, they are VAT registered too. As estimates of the value of charitable status are usually £200 per pupil per term (and will include things other than VAT reclaim as well), this really does suggest that the potential new reclaim isn't going to yield anywhere near as much as some are suggesting.

So it's unlikely that schools could cut their fees by so much that adding 20% makes little difference.

But I can see why one might want to make it look otherwise. Because mass exodus would break state education in a few areas - just a few where private schooling is common - but if people can be persuaded that it won't be that bad, the priced out departures will be spread over a few years and have far lower impact.

I'm curious as to how many people are spending £60k a year on school fees. My DS is starting private in August and it's £12.5k a year. He's currently in state with his needs not being met. How I wish they were. The narrative that private school = Eton is in every private school thread on MN. And it fails to recognise the fact that the average fee is £15k a year and many children are there because their state school is underfunded.

Mrs Thatcher, as education sec, holds the record for closing/merging more grammar schools than anyone - was she Labour?

If all you private school parents see paying tax as punitive, or driven by envy.... Does that apply to all taxes? Or only taxes on luxury items (PS, for example).

So you could afford private education then. Apparently the most expensive private school in the UK is £64k so not sure where £60k is coming from. The average is around £15k.
You sound like us. We can afford it but at a stretch. And it's a route we feel we're being pushed down due to DS's needs. Of course we're in a privileged position but there's no way on earth we could afford £60k.